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Euthanasia

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Euthanasia
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VisakiUser avatarPosts: 677Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Euthanasia

Since the topic came up in the death penalty discussion I'm wondering what LoR members think about it.

Personally I'm for legal euthanasia as I define it (as some would and do define even the holocaust as "euthanasia"); the medical help for self termination of ones life. I'm much for peoples right to kill themselves in a humane way when faced with a terminal illness, or a chronic disease that lowers their standard of living to an untolerable level. The case brought up in the death penalty thread, ie euthanasia for mental conditions, is a bit harder question but then again why should we differ between physical and mental suffering that can not be adequately helped?

Also I'm not for euthanasia because I want to kill my parents (you'd be surprised how common that claim has been in the discussions I've followed), but because I want to have the choice for a clean and humane end if I deem it necessary for myself.
Mon May 23, 2016 8:54 am
Duvelthehobbit666User avatarPosts: 1136Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:39 pmLocation: On a pale blue dot Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

I am personally for euthanasia. I believe that you own you life and you want to terminate it, this should be your choice. If it so happens that you have a terminal illness, or a chronic highly debilitating illness, and you believe that by choosing euthanasia, you die with more dignity than if you were to die of natural causes, this should be your choice. If you are able to find a doctor willing to do the procedure, than I have no qualms about it.
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Mon May 23, 2016 7:26 pm
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ldmitrukUser avatarPosts: 221Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:47 pmLocation: Edmonton, Alberta Gender: Cake

Post Re: Euthanasia

Hi,

Personally I don't have a problem with euthanasia or doctor assisted suicide as it's being called here in Canada. Right now the federal government has to pass legislation by mid June that outlines under what circumstances a person can request doctor assisted suicide. Needless to say it has stirred up a lot of controversy.

One of the sticking points for some people is that people with dementia, Alzheimer's, or other incapacitating mental disorders would not be able to access the procedure even if they had living directive. However the other day here in Alberta the provincial court ruled a woman can get a doctor assisted suicide as she is suffering from a mental disorder. This case, some people say, shows the proposed federal legislation is flawed in some aspects.

Cheers

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Tue May 24, 2016 5:09 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4994Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Euthanasia

I think governments should only be regulating those administering assistance, not whether we have the "right". We waive certain rights to enable governments to maintain a functional state, or at least that's how it should bloody work...
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

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Wed May 25, 2016 4:29 pm
Nesslig20User avatarPosts: 210Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:44 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

I also noticed this topic in the death penalty discussion, and I want to clarify my position if any one want to know.

Short, I'm in favor of legalizing euthanasia, but only in limiting circumstances. One it has to be done with the consent of the person in question. That is the essential requirement. Two it has to have justification. If a person is suffering a fatal illness, no way of recovery and it will only get worse until the very end and that person rather wants to avoid such suffering, that's a good reason to allow that person to be euthanized. This is a bit harder to determine with mental illness, because how would a psychologist determine wether the best thing to do to a mentally ill person, suffering from it who wants euthanasia, is either euthanasia or psychiatric help. It is especially troubling to determine wether such a person is sane enough for their wishes of euthanasia to be valid, but I'm still open to accept that euthanasia would be the best option in certain cases until, or it may already be, a proper method is found.

Many arguments agains this (which will inevitably be made against me) boils down to the slippery slope fallacy such that legalizing euthanasia will somehow inevitably lead to things like that people will use this as a means to reduce health care costs.
"Taking care of those elderly will costly and futile anyway, since they are already one foot in the grave"

No, there is no reason why this will be inevitable. I'm not in favor of this of course. The reason why I'm in favor of euthanasia is I'm aware that eventually I will either (hopefully) die peacefully in my sleep on my own, or I will be suffering from something that will become progressively worse until that moment of gasping that last breath in agony becomes the present. If the latter option will be my fate, I would rather have to option of euthanasia to be open for me to choose.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
Charles Darwin
Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:24 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

Visaki wrote:Since the topic came up in the death penalty discussion I'm wondering what LoR members think about it.

Personally I'm for legal euthanasia as I define it (as some would and do define even the holocaust as "euthanasia"); the medical help for self termination of ones life. I'm much for peoples right to kill themselves in a humane way when faced with a terminal illness, or a chronic disease that lowers their standard of living to an untolerable level. The case brought up in the death penalty thread, ie euthanasia for mental conditions, is a bit harder question but then again why should we differ between physical and mental suffering that can not be adequately helped?

Also I'm not for euthanasia because I want to kill my parents (you'd be surprised how common that claim has been in the discussions I've followed), but because I want to have the choice for a clean and humane end if I deem it necessary for myself.


Do you think people have the right to commit suicide, outside of a doctors supervision?
Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:01 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

Does anyone think we should have the right to commit suicide, outside of a doctors supervision?
Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:45 pm
Nesslig20User avatarPosts: 210Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:44 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

thenexttodie wrote:Does anyone think we should have the right to commit suicide, outside of a doctors supervision?


Which isn't the same as euthanasia, but to answer your question: No and I presume nobody here does.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
Charles Darwin
Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:26 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1167Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Euthanasia

Nesslig20 wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:Does anyone think we should have the right to commit suicide, outside of a doctors supervision?


Which isn't the same as euthanasia, but to answer your question: No and I presume nobody here does.


And what do you propose we do with people who do commit suicide? Lock the corpse in a prison? Punish their families?

It's your body, you can do with it what you want.

Ideally we should help people who want to take their own life but banning suicide and punishing people if they don't succeed is counter productive, cruel and frankly stupid.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:39 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

Nesslig20 wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:Does anyone think we should have the right to commit suicide, outside of a doctors supervision?


Which isn't the same as euthanasia, but to answer your question: No and I presume nobody here does.


I agree, I don't think we have a right to commit suicide.

Btw Can ask you where the picture for your avatar is from. I'm sure I have seen it somewhere before.
Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:08 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

WarK wrote:
And what do you propose we do with people who do commit suicide? Lock the corpse in a prison? Punish their families?
I'm playing chess, not checkers.

WarK wrote:It's your body, you can do with it what you want.

Ideally we should help people who want to take their own life


So you mean we should help people kill themselves? Or not? Or maybe only sometimes? Which is it?
Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:18 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1167Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Euthanasia

thenexttodie wrote:
WarK wrote:
And what do you propose we do with people who do commit suicide? Lock the corpse in a prison? Punish their families?
I'm playing chess, not checkers.


I don't know what checkers is. Care to explain what it is and how it or chess relate to the topic?

thenexttodie wrote:
WarK wrote:It's your body, you can do with it what you want.

Ideally we should help people who want to take their own life


So you mean we should help people kill themselves? Or not? Or maybe only sometimes? Which is it?


Ok, I wasn't clear about this one. By helping I mean helping them to not commit suicide. Contacting them with a mental health professional and things like this.

In the end it's a personal decision. You can't forbid suicide. If a person decides there's no other option for them, for example they have a terminal illness, they should have access to euthanasia.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:28 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

WarK wrote:
I don't know what checkers is. Care to explain what it is and how it or chess relate to the topic?


Yes this is checkers Image

The comparison between the game of chess and of checkers I feel is an accurate simile of your idiotic insinuation of the punishment of dead people or their families in response to my above post.

If you would ever like to meet in person and play an actual game of chess against me, betting 100 euro, this would not be that hard for us to arrange.


WarK wrote:It's your body, you can do with it what you want.

Ideally we should help people who want to take their own life


thenexttodie wrote: So you mean we should help people kill themselves? Or not? Or maybe only sometimes? Which is it?


WarK wrote:Ok, I wasn't clear about this one. By helping I mean helping them to not commit suicide. Contacting them with a mental health professional and things like this.

In the end it's a personal decision. You can't forbid suicide. If a person decides there's no other option for them, for example they have a terminal illness, they should have access to euthanasia.


Is it wrong to prevent someone from committing suicide?
Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:58 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

<let me help you out here.
I realize atheists are baffled by questions involving moral absolutes. Since you wil be unable to provide a diffinitive answer, let me give my answer and you can respond:

No, it is never wrong to prevent someone from comitting suicide.

I am awaiting your response..
Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:14 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1167Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Euthanasia

thenexttodie wrote:The comparison between the game of chess and of checkers I feel is an accurate simile of your idiotic insinuation of the punishment of dead people or their families in response to my above post.


I forgot who I was dealing with. I should've used the sarcasm tag. What I said was to highlight idiocy of forbidding someone to commit suicide.

thenexttodie wrote:If you would ever like to meet in person and play an actual game of chess against me, betting 100 euro, this would not be that hard for us to arrange.


I'm not a gambler. Are you?


thenexttodie wrote:
Is it wrong to prevent someone from committing suicide?


thenexttodie wrote:<let me help you out here.
I realize atheists are baffled by questions involving moral absolutes. Since you wil be unable to provide a diffinitive answer, let me give my answer and you can respond:

No, it is never wrong to prevent someone from comitting suicide.

I am awaiting your response..


Your mind strives for simple answers. Black or white. Either never or always. Good or evil. This is why you have troubles grasping reality.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:48 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 607Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

WarK wrote:
I'm not a gambler. Are you?


Yes I am.
Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:01 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3164Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

Euthanasia, like abortion, should be safe, legal, and rare.
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Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:58 pm
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Nesslig20User avatarPosts: 210Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:44 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

WarK wrote:And what do you propose we do with people who do commit suicide? Lock the corpse in a prison? Punish their families?

It's your body, you can do with it what you want.

Ideally we should help people who want to take their own life but banning suicide and punishing people if they don't succeed is counter productive, cruel and frankly stupid.


Maybe I wasn't too clear.

People who commit suicide, specifying on the ones that happen because they are depressed, should be helped wit their depression rather than locked up, which was my position. What changed was that I now realize when I say they don't have the right to commit suicide, it might imply that they should be locked up, but I did not meant to say that.

What I meant was that giving people the right to commit suicide might imply that we just should let people kill themselves for any reason, like depression. But I don't agree with that. We should neither ban nor allow suicide, rather help such cases.

(I am not trying to assume anything, but) Do you think we should let people just kill themselves for any reason? Even if we can help them with cases of depression. If not then we don't have a disagreement.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
Charles Darwin
Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:15 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1167Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Euthanasia

Nesslig20 wrote:(I am not trying to assume anything, but) Do you think we should let people just kill themselves for any reason? Even if we can help them with cases of depression. If not then we don't have a disagreement.



It's a lot more difficult question than it seems, methinks.

It's easy to say that we should help people with depression to live. And yes, I think we should. Depression can be treated. Even if such a person never returns to their former health it's worth helping them to deal with their depression. But can you force anyone to live? Who are we to decide if any given person's reason for committing suicide is valid?

Every person's life is their own. They can end it or live it. It's their choice.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:35 pm
Nesslig20User avatarPosts: 210Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:44 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Euthanasia

WarK wrote:It's a lot more difficult question than it seems, methinks.

It's easy to say that we should help people with depression to live. And yes, I think we should. Depression can be treated. Even if such a person never returns to their former health it's worth helping them to deal with their depression. But can you force anyone to live? Who are we to decide if any given person's reason for committing suicide is valid?

Every person's life is their own. They can end it or live it. It's their choice.


I don't hink helping their condition like depression isn't the same as forcing them to live. Saying to a depressive person "Live dammit!" doesn't help the person much.

And there are circumstance that we know euthanasia is the best option, to avoid unavoidable suffering. But what about conditions that are treatable like depression? Do we decide to help them? I think we should try. That is the distinction.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
Charles Darwin
Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:32 pm
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