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Are we existentially buggered?

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Are we existentially buggered?
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LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2924Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Are we existentially buggered?

I don't know whether 2016 is just a weird blip that has got me all paranoid and pessimistic, but I feel like things are getting to the make or break point for civilisation.

This year saw the world passing the 400ppm CO2 level permanently. Meaning essentially that governments across the world need to step in to ensure that pretty much all the remaining fossil fuels remain in the ground to meet the targets of the Paris agreement on Climate Change. Yet 14 trillion dollars is being lined up for fossil fuel extraction over the next 20 years (see previous link).

Governments do not seem willing to intervene to prevent corporations from digging up the fossil fuels that will ultimately destroy our planet. People do not seem that bothered about forcing their governments to take action. Not in any meaningful way at least. I think the point at which people will demand change will be the point at which the effects of climate change are in full swing. At the moment its only affecting the third world, so us comfortable Westerners aren't that bothered. By the time we are it will probably be too late.

In my opinion this impotence of politics (or maybe lack of consequences for politicians ignoring the agreements they sign), lack of a real mass movement demanding change now, combined with the fossil fuel industry's intent on continuing to do harm to our planet unabated is going to end civilisation. I feel like at the moment we are gazing in the mirror faking a smile and going about our day as normal, but the cracks are there and by the time things start falling apart it will be too late to get help.

Has 2016 just got to me, or are we existentially buggered?
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Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:06 am
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4985Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

The whole of western society is moribund.

That is all.
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Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:28 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3123Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Laurens wrote:Has 2016 just got to me, or are we existentially buggered?


We had a good run. Hopefully, the next civilizations that rises from our ashes will learn from our mistakes.

Foresight is what we lack. However, unlike all the other civilizations before us, we actually could predict (with a high degree of accuracy) what our future problems would be and how to prevent them. We just ignored them. This is the mistake any future civilization will need to fix.
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Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:23 pm
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LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2924Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
Laurens wrote:Has 2016 just got to me, or are we existentially buggered?


We had a good run. Hopefully, the next civilizations that rises from our ashes will learn from our mistakes.

Foresight is what we lack. However, unlike all the other civilizations before us, we actually could predict (with a high degree of accuracy) what our future problems would be and how to prevent them. We just ignored them. This is the mistake any future civilization will need to fix.


I also think that Neolibralism is largely responsible for the problems we face.

Neolibralism encourages the impotence of politics in favour of a system where "the Market" is king. The issue being that the Market only accounts for catastrophe to a certain extent. In a Neoliberal world fossil fuels will be replaced in the point at which fossil fuels become scarce and more expensive and renewables become cheaper and easier to produce, but that point could be way after the environmental damage is too far gone to reverse. The same system discourages an increase on tax on fossil fuels/subsidies and tax breaks for clean energy to intervene in "the Market".

Unfortunately Socialism wherein governments have the power to intervene and stop environmentally atrocious things like fracking is viewed as dangerous to the Neoliberal elite who do everything in their power to maintain their grip on society.

People are getting fed up and angry with it, but their anger is misdirected. Hence Trump/Brexit. If that anger could be harnessed and taken in the right direction we might see the change we need before its too late, or at least not so late as to be our complete ruin. I don't see that happening though.
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Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:56 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 522Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Laurens wrote:I don't know whether 2016 is just a weird blip that has got me all paranoid and pessimistic, but I feel like things are getting to the make or break point for civilisation.

This year saw the world passing the 400ppm CO2 level permanently. Meaning essentially that governments across the world need to step in to ensure that pretty much all the remaining fossil fuels remain in the ground to meet the targets of the Paris agreement on Climate Change. Yet 14 trillion dollars is being lined up for fossil fuel extraction over the next 20 years (see previous link).

Governments do not seem willing to intervene to prevent corporations from digging up the fossil fuels that will ultimately destroy our planet. People do not seem that bothered about forcing their governments to take action. Not in any meaningful way at least. I think the point at which people will demand change will be the point at which the effects of climate change are in full swing. At the moment its only affecting the third world, so us comfortable Westerners aren't that bothered. By the time we are it will probably be too late.

In my opinion this impotence of politics (or maybe lack of consequences for politicians ignoring the agreements they sign), lack of a real mass movement demanding change now, combined with the fossil fuel industry's intent on continuing to do harm to our planet unabated is going to end civilisation. I feel like at the moment we are gazing in the mirror faking a smile and going about our day as normal, but the cracks are there and by the time things start falling apart it will be too late to get help.

Has 2016 just got to me, or are we existentially buggered?


The span of human existence has already been limited by mutation rates.
Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:37 pm
Grumpy SantaPosts: 272Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:27 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

thenexttodie wrote:
The span of human existence has already been limited by mutation rates.


I think you may have been trying to state something clever but I'm not sure... could you clarify this statement please?
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Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:57 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2746Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Greetings,

Grumpy Santa wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:
The span of human existence has already been limited by mutation rates.


I think you may have been trying to state something clever but I'm not sure... could you clarify this statement please?

I believe he's alluding to the creationists' claim that humans are "devolving" - ie, losing DNA.

Kindest regards,

James
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Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:45 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3123Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

Grumpy Santa wrote:I think you may have been trying to state something clever but I'm not sure... could you clarify this statement please?

I believe he's alluding to the creationists' claim that humans are "devolving" - ie, losing DNA.

Kindest regards,

James


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Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:48 pm
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LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2924Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Hoorah thenexttodie comes along and derails another thread.

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Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:00 pm
Grumpy SantaPosts: 272Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:27 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

Grumpy Santa wrote:
I think you may have been trying to state something clever but I'm not sure... could you clarify this statement please?

I believe he's alluding to the creationists' claim that humans are "devolving" - ie, losing DNA.

Kindest regards,

James


I guess that would explain the fusion event forming human chromosome 2 - we went from 24 to 23 pairs of chromosomes after all.
J. R. R. Tolkien was a Middle Earth Creationist.
Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:30 am
thenexttodiePosts: 522Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Grumpy Santa wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:
The span of human existence has already been limited by mutation rates.


I think you may have been trying to state something clever but I'm not sure... could you clarify this statement please?



Well all you have to do is compare the scientific laws of climate change with the law of beneficial mutation. Then you will get your answer.
Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:00 pm
australopithecusAdministratorUser avatarPosts: 4235Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

I prefer the law of posting on topic.

Only warning.
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Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:33 pm
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2924Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Just got done watching this:



For me, my personal solution is threefold

- Don't have kids as I do not want to inflict the future on someone against their wishes.
- Do what I can as an individual to create the best possible future for other people's children.
- Try to stay positive on this pretty dark trajectory that we are on, and see if I can find some hope somewhere.

I hope something happens like this year or next year to really make a difference, but after Brexit and Trump etc. I won't be holding my breath too much.
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Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:54 pm
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 648Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Laurens wrote:Just got done watching this:


I have to watch that when I have the time.

For me, my personal solution is threefold

- Don't have kids as I do not want to inflict the future on someone against their wishes.

Check, though not actually by choice but chance.
- Do what I can as an individual to create the best possible future for other people's children.

Check, through my nieces.
- Try to stay positive on this pretty dark trajectory that we are on, and see if I can find some hope somewhere.

Check, though I don't think that this is the end of the World. Then again I live in Finland and the effects of GW will mainly be that we won't have so many nice snowy winters and our polar bear population don't have to wear winter jackets and long underwear as much.

I hope something happens like this year or next year to really make a difference, but after Brexit and Trump etc. I won't be holding my breath too much.

What we need is a global dictator. I mean that in the original Roman way; in a time of crisis appointing a single leader for a set time with extraordinary powers. Not that it will happen, but one can always dream. On a positive side at least Trump presidency will be interesting in a terrifying way, kinda like watching Hitler taking over Germany.

P.S. I wonder if people in 1939 thought as pessimistically about the future?
Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:34 am
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1157Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Visaki wrote:P.S. I wonder if people in 1939 thought as pessimistically about the future?


I don't think they realised where it could lead. We saw it and we know and we still don't care.

Maybe the kind of system China has would be better, no pesky democracy where people elect imbeciles to do what corporations tell them to do.

Who knows, maybe the next civilisation will do better. At least for a while.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:33 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 648Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

WarK wrote:
Visaki wrote:P.S. I wonder if people in 1939 thought as pessimistically about the future?


I don't think they realised where it could lead. We saw it and we know and we still don't care.

Maybe the kind of system China has would be better, no pesky democracy where people elect imbeciles to do what corporations tell them to do.

Who knows, maybe the next civilisation will do better. At least for a while.

You might be right. We forget easily today how limited and controllable information was before the internet and specially in 1939ish. Access to too much information (or mis-information) might be the great curse of modern times.

China is doing well now that they have taken up centrally controlled capitalism. The only problem is that the system can only work when the economy is booming. When the first great depression hits Chine that'll be that and the system will either change radically or use force in a massive scale (think magnitude or two more than Tienanmen square in 1989). Even in the last 15 years, which have been great for the Chinese economy, they have needed the PLA to put down protests and strikes, killing hundreds at least.
Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:12 am
MarsCydoniaUser avatarPosts: 389Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:15 pm

Post Re: Are we existentially buggered?

Well I don't have a doubt now.
Done with indulging the stupidity of christian trolls.
Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:14 pm
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