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America just sent the world a message and it is....

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America just sent the world a message and it is....
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WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1183Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:27 am
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2950Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
Image


I think my above posts of piss and vinegar were premature. It appeared to me that the silent majority was actually real, and that scared the shit out of me. However, that is not the case, we just have a shit load of apathetic voters. Do not get me wrong, I am also mad at those people too, but not for the same reason and not to the same degree.

Why the fuck would you not vote? Unless one is going to actively take up arms against their government, the only way average people can influence and make changes is by voting. Why would anyone choose not to do this basic of all rights? I am not going to sit here and say they are the reason Trump won, I do not know how that 23% would have voted, I just do not understand what the point is in wasting your vote like that. Actually going out and casting a vote is never a waste, because your vote is counted and your voice is heard. Beyond that there are tons of down ballot issues to vote for that have a far faster and closer impact on your life. To everyone in the U.S. that chose not to vote, FUCK YOU. You are no better than the anti-vaxxers of this world.


I don't necessarily agree, but in this of all elections I can see why people didn't vote. The choice between a warmongering establishment figure who has scandal after scandal and a bigoted sociopath isn't that great. I know there is the lesser of two evils and all that, but I can totally empathise with someone who thought 'fuck it' and didn't bother.

As far as not voting in general is concerned, I think the voting system and politics in general is due an overhaul. If we can do our banking online, we ought to be able to vote online. This alone would engage the younger generation more. When I was of voting age, but younger than I am now, I didn't vote because politics was boring and I didn't really understand it. Politicians need to be aware that the public consists of various generations, at the moment it suits older people who view it as a civic duty and are prepared to trek up the road to a polling station to vote. A lot of kids are used to being able to do everything online, making voting online would engage them far more than anything else.
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Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:49 pm
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2560Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Laurens wrote:
As far as not voting in general is concerned, I think the voting system and politics in general is due an overhaul. If we can do our banking online, we ought to be able to vote online. This alone would engage the younger generation more. When I was of voting age, but younger than I am now, I didn't vote because politics was boring and I didn't really understand it. Politicians need to be aware that the public consists of various generations, at the moment it suits older people who view it as a civic duty and are prepared to trek up the road to a polling station to vote. A lot of kids are used to being able to do everything online, making voting online would engage them far more than anything else.



Well, not to be a conspiracy monger or anything, but I'm thinking that certain politicians have a vested interest in NOT making this happen.
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Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:45 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 765Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Gnug215 wrote:
Laurens wrote:
As far as not voting in general is concerned, I think the voting system and politics in general is due an overhaul. If we can do our banking online, we ought to be able to vote online. This alone would engage the younger generation more. When I was of voting age, but younger than I am now, I didn't vote because politics was boring and I didn't really understand it. Politicians need to be aware that the public consists of various generations, at the moment it suits older people who view it as a civic duty and are prepared to trek up the road to a polling station to vote. A lot of kids are used to being able to do everything online, making voting online would engage them far more than anything else.


Well, not to be a conspiracy monger or anything, but I'm thinking that certain politicians have a vested interest in NOT making this happen.

Google "Gerrymandering".

I'm not quite sure about the online voting thing. It has a lot of potential problems, least of which isn't the possibility of interference (like a DOS attack on the servers). Banking you can usually do another day if the bank site is down today, with elections that's not really an option. I'd rather see a better system for early voting, so people have more time to vote.

It's all like that no lobbying thing Trump suggested; it sounds very nice to the voters but it'll be quietly dropped now and never spoken of again untill the next election.
Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:56 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2560Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Visaki wrote:
Gnug215 wrote:
Well, not to be a conspiracy monger or anything, but I'm thinking that certain politicians have a vested interest in NOT making this happen.



Google "Gerrymandering".


Yeah, know all about that. It was kind of what I was thinking about. But I also think I've heard that the most likely demographics to benefit (as in, will be voting more) from online voting, are ones that would not benefit the Republican party.

This may just be hearsay, though. But hey, my confirmation bias is telling me that it's absolutely a thing!


Visaki wrote:I'm not quite sure about the online voting thing. It has a lot of potential problems, least of which isn't the possibility of interference (like a DOS attack on the servers). Banking you can usually do another day if the bank site is down today, with elections that's not really an option. I'd rather see a better system for early voting, so people have more time to vote.

It's all like that no lobbying thing Trump suggested; it sounds very nice to the voters but it'll be quietly dropped now and never spoken of again untill the next election.


No lobbying would be fantastic, but I agree, it's likely one of those things that will disappear. I doubt Trump will actually end up doing all that much good, even in the best of scenarios. But one can hope.
- Gnug215

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The horse is a ferocious predator.
Sat Nov 12, 2016 5:13 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

WarK wrote:I don't find it that surprising. People don't care that much. Last time they voted for change and not that much changed. If Obama failed do you think Clinton would do better?


Who said anything about Clinton? There were four people that ran for president. Honestly, the reason the turn out was this terribly low was because of that narrative of having to choose from "the lesser of two evils" the media and most people pushed. This was the election that a third party could have won. The fact that more people did not vote than voted for any of the major ticket candidates speaks to the fact that people wanted another option, but were told a lie that voting for a third party was a waste. This election proved that it was not a waste. Not voting is the waste, it has always been the waste.

WarK wrote:Some interesting facts 2 charts that show Donald Trump is not as popular as he would have you believe


Fewer people voted for Trump than did for McCain or Romney in previous elections. It's Clinton who failed.


I have seen this already, but thanks for sharing it as well. Information like this is what has change my fear from thinking nearly half of the U.S. openly supported bigoted, anti-science rhetoric to being mad at people that did not vote. Now since they did not vote, the major media is trying to still spin this silent majority crap. None of them are talking about how apathy won the day. Remember, if major media talked about third parties, it was only to discourage people from voting for them.

tuxbox wrote:
he_who_is_nobody wrote:I hope a democrat comes by and explains to me how Clinton is so electable again.


It is because she is not trust worthy and in all likelihood a criminal. She lied to the FBI several times, which is against the law. If you or I had lied to the FBI, we would be charged with a crime. She only cares about money, power, and herself.


Oh I know. Like I said, this comment is said jokingly as a jab at the democrats that kept telling me how they pick Clinton because she was so electable. Obviously she was not when this election had the two major parties put up the most un-likable candidates in history. This was the democrats election to lose, and they lost it and have no one to blame but themselves, as WarK pointed out. Part of me is glad about that, because perhaps the democrats will start listening to the demographics and change with them. I just wish they would have lost to Johnson instead.

Laurens wrote:I don't necessarily agree, but in this of all elections I can see why people didn't vote. The choice between a warmongering establishment figure who has scandal after scandal and a bigoted sociopath isn't that great. I know there is the lesser of two evils and all that, but I can totally empathise with someone who thought 'fuck it' and didn't bother.


There is that narrative again. See the above comments to WarK. I mean, even if you took that 23% and split it between Johnson and Stein, that would most likely have resulted in no one winning 270 Electoral votes, kicking it to the House, and the people in the U.S. would have truly freaked out. People are protesting/rioting because Clinton won the popular vote, but did not win the presidency. Imagine what we would be doing if the whole thing was taken away from the people and the politicians had to pick. At the very least, this would be the last election using the archaic Electoral College.

Laurens wrote:As far as not voting in general is concerned, I think the voting system and politics in general is due an overhaul. If we can do our banking online, we ought to be able to vote online. This alone would engage the younger generation more. When I was of voting age, but younger than I am now, I didn't vote because politics was boring and I didn't really understand it. Politicians need to be aware that the public consists of various generations, at the moment it suits older people who view it as a civic duty and are prepared to trek up the road to a polling station to vote. A lot of kids are used to being able to do everything online, making voting online would engage them far more than anything else.


How does one expect this to happen if one does not go out and vote in the first place? The people in power do not have to change anything since part of the reason they are in power is because of the system. They have no motivation to change it. As I first said before, and you quoted, unless one is actively fighting against their government, the only way to get things changed is by voting. Speaking of the protestors/rioters earlier, it would not surprise me one bit if at least half (if not more) of those people out there are part of that 23% that were interested enough to register to vote, but did not.
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Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:01 pm
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thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

I'm not a big Trump fan but I think America just dodged a bullet by not electing Hillary as President.

Hillary supporters I think were fighting for mostly gay and queer lgbt rights and for feminism. And they were fighting against Islamaphobia.

I think the reason why Hillary lost is because everyone knows lgbtq rights don't fit with Islam. So she ended up looking like a tool by pretending she supportes both gay and Islamic ideaolgy.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:01 pm
MarsCydoniaUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:15 pm

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

thenexttodie wrote:I think the reason why Hillary lost is because everyone knows lgbtq rights don't fit with Islam. So she ended up looking like a tool by pretending she supportes both gay and Islamic ideaolgy.

LGBTQ rights do not fit with christianity either but here's a concept you do not seem to grasp:
There's a difference between opposing religious discrimination and supporting a religion's idealogy.
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Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:49 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

WarK wrote:


Just finished this video and I have to say this guy is peddling the silent majority crap too. As you pointed out, Trump won with less votes than Romney or McCain before him. Thus, trying to shift the blame away from Clinton and the DNC is asinine. The DNC and Clinton lost this election, the blame starts and ends with them. They ran a terrible campaign from the beginning, they picked a terrible person to nominate, and they did this all in the open; the whole time trying to gaslight people into thinking that what they were doing was in their best interest. If Clinton would have campaigned on good foreign or domestic policies, she would have won. If she would have picked Elizabeth Warren as her VP, she would have won. If she would have talked about the economy (we were below 5% unemployment in October with drops for the whole of 2016) she would have won. They did none of this, instead they just kept saying "how could anyone vote for Trump?" Turns out, not that many people did. You have to give reasons why people should also vote for you, not just why the other person is terrible.
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Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:59 pm
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VisakiUser avatarPosts: 765Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

he_who_is_nobody wrote:Just finished this video and I have to say this guy is peddling the silent majority crap too. As you pointed out, Trump won with less votes than Romney or McCain before him. Thus, trying to shift the blame away from Clinton and the DNC is asinine. The DNC and Clinton lost this election, the blame starts and ends with them. They ran a terrible campaign from the beginning, they picked a terrible person to nominate, and they did this all in the open; the whole time trying to gaslight people into thinking that what they were doing was in their best interest. If Clinton would have campaigned on good foreign or domestic policies, she would have won. If she would have picked Elizabeth Warren as her VP, she would have won. If she would have talked about the economy (we were below 5% unemployment in October with drops for the whole of 2016) she would have won. They did none of this, instead they just kept saying "how could anyone vote for Trump?" Turns out, not that many people did. You have to give reasons why people should also vote for you, not just why the other person is terrible.

If you put forward two of the most hated candidates in history (ok, I didn't check that) you can't be surprised that people don't want to vote for either. Though I do think that the electorial college crap doesn't help with the voting activity (the US presidential elections have a very low turnout compared to other western democracies).

I'm not quite sure how effective a policy driven campaign would have been against a demagogue like Trump. It might have worked to ignore things Trump said in general and focus only in the policies, but the media wouldn't have done that and you could have been drowned out in all that Trump noise. Or it might have risen above the noise as a real candidate with real policies as Trump looks as a loud bully. Hard to say really.

If the DNC wanted really to beat Trump Sanders would have been the way and according to polls that was clear early last year even before the DNC started it's campaign to get Clinton nominated. So yeah, the democrats only have to blame their party for the next two years (at least) of republican dominance.
Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:31 am
australopithecusAdministratorUser avatarPosts: 4282Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

I for one welcome the opportunity to evaporate in a ball of glorious Soviet nuclear fire.
Image
Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:32 pm
CollecemallPosts: 338Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:53 am

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

australopithecus wrote:I for one welcome the opportunity to evaporate in a ball of glorious Soviet nuclear fire.



As long as it lands right on me I'm all for it. I'm not big on dying from radiation poisoning though. Which is probably how I would go. I live just close enough to a likely target to be in danger I think.
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Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:20 pm
DustniteUser avatarPosts: 518Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 9:11 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Well, guess it doesn't matter now. Trump is going to backpedal on most of his promises (not surprising) and install a ridiculous cabinet of people to run the country. Republicans take the house and senate and likely the majority in the SCOTUS (which is a lifetime membership.)

There will be two outcomes from this:

1) The republicans put forth their grand vision for America completely unimpeded. Deregulate the market, deregulate banks, and return to pre WWI policies. If they cause America to fail, there is no one to blame but themselves. Then we elect someone else to repair the damage and the cycle starts over again.

2) They push their grand vision and we see propserity in America at the cost of others being excluded. A return to Keynesian economics (Oliver Twist? I hope not) and a couple years of good times before someone has to pop the bubble. Then we are back again in damage control cycle. Same thing happened after Reagan, Same thing happened after Bush Sr. and Jr. The same protests happened with Obama that are now happening with Trump. Cycle after Cycle.

One thing I do expect regardless of who took the election is for our carbon footprint to be reduced. Why? Natural gas plants are simply cheaper and more efficient than coal so the economy will take care of this carbon problem for us. Republicans can then say that their policies work for climate change when in fact it was just technology moving in the right direction. But that won't matter to this low information populace...

I also can't wait to see what these whiners want to do about ISIS and ISIL given they blame Obama for the creation of these states. Actually, maybe I don't want to know I just expect a shit ton of hypocrisy in the first 100 days.
"But this is irrelevant because in either case, whether a god exists or not, whether your God (with a capital G) exists or not, it doesn't matter. We both are, in either case, evolved apes. " - Nesslig20
Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:48 am
DustniteUser avatarPosts: 518Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 9:11 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Also for the record, let's remind everyone how the US got in this situation in the first place. A republican congress that only wanted to serve it's best interests:

Trade Adjustment Assistance to retrain workers displaced by free trade: blocked by Republicans.

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/House-Leaders-Block-Trade-Adjustment-Assistance

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/06/16/can-a-trade-bargain-be-put-back-together-again/

Community College: Proposed free community college program; blocked by Republicans.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/237108-senators-block-free-community-college

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/09/politics/obama-community-college-fate/

Infrastructure Bill: Proposed $60b on highway, rail, transit and airport improvements + $10 billion in seed money for infrastructure bank; blocked by Republicans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-blocks-60-billion-infrastructure-plan/2011/11/03/gIQACXjajM_story.html

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-11-03/obama-infrastructure-bill/51063852/1

Jobs Bill: to "give tax breaks for companies that "insource' jobs to the U.S. from overseas while eliminating tax deductions for companies that move jobs abroad"; blocked by Republicans

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/politics/senate-bring-jobs-home-bill-blocked/

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/213780-republicans-block-bill-to-end-tax-breaks-for-outsourcing

The American voter may have short term memory loss, but I will fucking remember it.
"But this is irrelevant because in either case, whether a god exists or not, whether your God (with a capital G) exists or not, it doesn't matter. We both are, in either case, evolved apes. " - Nesslig20
Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:51 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 765Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

@Dustnite: The republicans said that they will block anything and everything they can of the things the democrats and Obama send their way. At least they kept that promise. I wonder if the democrats will grow some balls or will they still be dreaming that bipartisanship and compromise are the ways to go?
Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:21 am
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

he_who_is_nobody wrote:Fuck this country. Fuck the people that live here.


At last, the truth comes out.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:44 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: America just sent the world a message and it is....

Visaki wrote:@Dustnite: The republicans said that they will block anything and everything they can of the things the democrats and Obama send their way. At least they kept that promise. I wonder if the democrats will grow some balls or will they still be dreaming that bipartisanship and compromise are the ways to go?


Here is to hoping they will. I have already emailed and called my representatives (find yours) to try and stop the nomination of Stephen Bannon. I am going to print out the email and mail it in as well.
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Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:16 pm
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