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Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

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Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.
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DaealisUser avatarPosts: 235Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:48 pmLocation: Tampere

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Well, not much of a point in telling you anything of the rebuttals, since his argument basically is this:
I shall give you my specific sources on each individual matter: *link to a massive, 10-year-old candyland http 1.0-style page lookalike* There, all the facts are in there. Now you have the proof and you should convert!

Jesus-is-savior.com is an awful page to try and actually find something. The front page has next to nothing resembling a directory, the articles are categorized with the idea of "how to make this shit as difficult as possible" in mind and to tip it off, the titles don't usually reflect one bit about the information in them. That page is competing with pre-school kids in page-design and consistency. And for the articles themselves in there, most are like the opinions-page of a newspaper. They are columns that are made simply to evangelize. The ones I've read cite no sources, take extremely slanted view on everything and usually, just to top it off, they use excessive "you gotta have faith" and "*random scripture* says so"-arguments as proof they're right.

The least you could do is give him a link to a site that tries to keep up with the current world of biology, like Answersingenesis(atleast they try to update :P). Darwinismrefuted didn't have anything past Behe's irreducible complexity. It potrayed all the old complexities(flagellum, eye) as a still valid arguments although intermediates and "proof"(hyphened since he won't accept it anyway) have pointed out the inconsistencies of these years ago. Of course as you already had pointed out to him that refuting evolution only proves that we were wrong about evolution, yet he still insists on trying to bring "darwinism" down like it automatically proves his batshit crazy ideas, so he propably isn't going to give a damn if you try to point this out to him again.

From his link, http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolutio ... x/4000.htm, I found a few nice pointers that can easily refute this whole page. The complete list of anti-evolution crap is a bit larger project :P So, with the quotes.
One of the simplest and best proofs that evolution is a joke, is the FACT that there is NO recorded history prior to 4,000 B.C.

This only prooves that written language rose around that time. The evidence of sedentism(tranformation from wandering nomads to living in a fixed location) date back as far as 12 000 B.C.E. There are whole villages dated back 10 000 B.C.E.(Here is the source used in Wikipedia, on the article of the Cradle of Civilization: La protohistoire de l'Europe, Jan Lichardus et al., Presses Universitaires de France, Paris. ISBN 84-335-9366-8, 1987, chapter II.2) And no, radiometric dating isn't wrong. That song is getting old.
The Bible records the beginning of mankind at about 4,000 B.C., and secular history is eerily silent before 4,000 B.C. for those who claim to believe in evolution. If I were an evolutionist, I would be extremely disturbed by this FACT. Prove me wrong! I dare you. I triple-dog dare you to show me any recorded civilization before 4,000 B.C. And I don't mean some pottery jug or item that you claim is 14,000 years old--Show me any evidence of civilization prior to 4,000 B.C. You cannot. There is NO recorded history prior to 4,000 B.C.--no writings, no carved stones, no battles, no wars, no countries, no nothing!

Oh my, I debunked your dare already on the previous statement. I gave you a whole town of evidence.

After that the article gets funky. It actually does a refreshingly new bastardization of the good ol' creatard argument "if we came from monkeys why there are no men walking out of the jungles?". But this is a nice little change of scenery, as the author talks about spoken languages:
There are no "primitive" languages. All languages have a system of sounds, words, and sentences that can adequately communicate the content of culture. This is evidence of a divine Creator.The languages of the so-called "primitive" peoples are often very complex in their grammatical structures. If mankind had advanced through an evolutionary process, then there should still be developing languages today; but in fact, one languages disappears every 2-weeks.

The evolution of language isn't even hard to prove. You can take latin and compare it with any latin derived language from the history books and compare it down the generations. Actually, languages evolve today fairly fast too. This is apparent if a population gets isolated for a long perioid of time. For example, after the WWII some finnish folk took a boat trip to America in search of riches. They formed their own communities, there is a town called Suomi(Finland) in the USA somewhere. I have relatives living in the states and only talk finnish with their own family for a long time, since the only method of communicating back to finland was with letters. So when they visit(once a decade or so), they are having difficulties understanding some of the sentences. And they speak like out of some ancient book, really funny to listen. The language back here has evolved so much that after a few more generations their finnish can only barely be understood by my kids.

The fact that mankind's languages are vanishing from civilization at any alarming rate is proof that evolution is a lie. If evolution were true, then the process by which mankind has obtained 7,000 languages would be continuing today.

As the points I made before clearly indicate, the fact is that language is evolving still today. I don't know if this author has ever heard of the term globalisation, but I suppose that is a word to describe what is happening. I am an engineering student. Practically every resource material is written in english. This is true for the whole world. If you want your work to be recognized and used widely, write it in english. It doesn't take a genious to reason why smaller dialects are dying off. I wouldn't mind if there was only two or one languages generally spoken by everyone in the world. I wouldn't care if finnish ceased to exist. Language is a tool and the variety of changeable heads on this screwdriver is enough to drive anyone mad.

One more and I'm done with that article.
IF, as evolutionists claim, the earth is billions of years old, and mankind has evolved from a lower and simpler form of life, then why has mankind gone from writing upon stones to laser printers in just the past 3,500 years?

As said, writing was invented roughly 4000 B.C.E. Steady settlements were around for 6000 years before that. In order to see the advancements you need to look this thing from a distance:
-We were migrating through the world roughly 50 000 B.C.E.
-There are symbolic artefacts from 40 millenia ago. Means art, not usable items, just art.
-It took us roughly 40 000 years to invent sufficiently effective food storages and supplies to stay put. Mesopotamian housing found.
-It took another few thousand years to get the cultivation of some wheats going in the India/Pakistan area.
-It then took 4000 years to invent writing. Around the same time Egyptians invented yeast for their bread.
-It only took 600 years after the first primitive writings appeared that the Egyptians had their first hieroglyphs.
-Roughly around 3000 B.C.E the first civilizations arose from the mesopotamian, with armies and state and all that. Egyptians invented the papyrus to replace the animal skins and clay-tablets as a writing medium in the area.
-2700 B.C.E. Egyptians introduced the base 10 number system.
-It took another 1300 years to refine iron into tools.
-600 B.C.E. Thales of Miletus proposes that natural phenomena don't need a supernatural explanation.
-Around 400 B.C.E. Greek philosophy made its leaps forwars with Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. Aristotle refines the scientific method with empirism.
-From the last centuries B.C.E. to the first few centuries C.E. great nations rise and fall. China is divided and so is Europe.
-200 B.C.E. First library(Alexandria)
-Roughly 200 C.E. Chinese invent paper.
-6th century and mechanics.
-Around 10th century the optics and gunpowder.
-Printing press made the copying of knowledge reliable and faster in 1440. The amount of information, the quantity and the quality of it multiplied rapidly.
-16th century and science had made enough advancements that the earth was no longer in the center of our solarsystem. The Aristotle idea of everything consisting of the elements was gone and atom-theory replaced it. Steam engines, looms, human anatomy, waterwheel, medicine, calculators, logarithms, economics, social sciences. The amount of information invented in half a century is already more than from the beginning of civilization to the beginning of the modern calendar.

And I think that list has already gone on long enough. By the 1500's the amount of information gathered yearly has been staggering. Today we produce yearly as much information than they did in a century. Because people didn't have any written knowledge before, they had to do what they could from what they had. Since they made the original discoveries, the latter generation is able to continue their work on a more precise scale(first they notice that humans have a circulatory system, then they map it out, then they learn how it works, then they disect it further down to microscopic scale, etc.). Also some might find it funny that here we have a christian mocking humanity for not making it any further in 15 000 years of development, when the advances of science in Europe were stopped because of the church prohibiting it.

This exponential growth of information should be pretty obvious by now. From 1882(Edison provides electricity to selected customers) to 1968(first microprocessor), the sciences made leaps forwars. In less than a year after electricity was first distributed the first "modern" microchip was introduced, and less than 50 years later, everyone has a handful of supercomputers at their disposal, connected wirelessly to each other and sharing information. I find it sickening that he belittles this kind of staggering development and tries to justify his bronze-age mythology with it.

Feel free to draw inspiration out of my rant that I see now is pretty excessive. I really can't read apologetic sources without debunking the stupidity. Nasty habit.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
- Albert Einstein
Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:52 pm
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