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TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the agenda

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TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the agenda
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WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1224Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the agenda

Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:17 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

I think this birth control topic is bullshit and it is coming from both sides of the aisle. That said, why should birth control be free? Why should tax payers have to pay for college students to have sex for free? And where in the constitution does it give the government the right to force businesses or religious institutions to provide it?
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:02 am
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

tuxbox wrote:I think this birth control topic is bullshit and it is coming from both sides of the aisle. That said, why should birth control be free? Why should tax payers have to pay for college students to have sex for free? And where in the constitution does it give the government the right to force businesses or religious institutions to provide it?


Are you taking the piss?

1) Contraceptive pills aren't just used to prevent pregnancy. This shouldn't have to be pointed out to an adult.
2) Tax payers ("the people") don't pay for college students to "have sex for free". The stupidity of this phrase shouldn't have to be pointed out to an adult.
3) Both 1 and 2 make your final question moot. I'd like to ask a question, though; where in the constitution does it say anything about healthcare? Your constitution isn't a deity, it's a bit of paper.
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:01 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

Prolescum wrote:Are you taking the piss?

1) Contraceptive pills aren't just used to prevent pregnancy. This shouldn't have to be pointed out to an adult.
2) Tax payers ("the people") don't pay for college students to "have sex for free". The stupidity of this phrase shouldn't have to be pointed out to an adult.
3) Both 1 and 2 make your final question moot. I'd like to ask a question, though; where in the constitution does it say anything about healthcare? Your constitution isn't a deity, it's a bit of paper.


First off I am aware that the "pill" is used for more than just birth control. I am also aware of the health benefits. My sister had to start taking the pill at age 16 due to endometriosis. That said, endometrriosis only effects about 10 percent of women. The other medical reason that I am aware of is polycystic ovary syndrome, which also only effects 5-10% of women. Giving these stats, I am still a little baffeled why people think it should be given away for "free". When in reality it is not free and small business owners like my father ends up flipping the bill, because health insurance premiums go up. So even though it is not a tax per se, the individual citizen still ends up paying for it even if they do not directly benefit from it.

Secondly, this whole "birth control" crap started (in the US anyway) because the Federal Government mandated that insurance companies had to provide the pill for "free" (not really free). Then the lying Sandra Fluke testified before a Congressal hearing bitching about her University not providing the pill for "free" (not really free) knowing damn good and well that Georgetown had that policy in the first place. Nothing was stopping her from going to a different Univesity.

Thirdly, the US Constitution is there for a reason. It is to protect the citizens from a over reaching Federal Government. Try reading the Tenth Amendment (enumerated powers). While you maybe perfectly happy with your government telling you what to buy, what to eat and when to take a shit, I am not. Americans are fucking asleep at the wheel while our government passes unconstitutional laws like the Defense of Marriage Act, The Patriot Act, National Defense Authorization Act, and yes The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). I am sick of it, plain and simple. The 10th Amendment should also answer your question of "where in the constitution does it say anything about healthcare?"

And lastly, not one single women in the US is denied access to the "pill". Poor women can get it free and others can get it as low as 9 dollars a month WITHOUT insurance.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:25 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

tuxbox wrote:First off I am aware that the "pill" is used for more than just birth control. I am also aware of the health benefits. My sister had to start taking the pill at age 16 due to endometriosis. That said, endometrriosis only effects about 10 percent of women. The other medical reason that I am aware of is polycystic ovary syndrome, which also only effects 5-10% of women. Giving these stats, I am still a little baffeled why people think it should be given away for "free".


You're forgetting dysmenorrhea, which affects approximately 25% of women, and could affect up to 90% of adolescent females. link.

Your initial question was: why should birth control be free?
The simple answer being that health care should be free at the point of delivery for all, paid for by direct taxation. Birth control pills serve a number of medical functions, as you concede, and therefore qualify.

I live in a country with a national health service, so your bafflement is both amusing and depressing.

When in reality it is not free and small business owners like my father ends up flipping the bill, because health insurance premiums go up.


No one denies that your health system is fucked beyond belief, and that Obama's paltry solution does little but bolster the status quo. Your health costs would be cheaper if you hadn't set up such a ridiculous system in the first place.

So even though it is not a tax per se, the individual citizen still ends up paying for it even if they do not directly benefit from it.


Everyone in my country pays but may not regularly benefit directly. However, the health of one's nation has a massive impact on the productivity, wealth and happiness of a country. This far outweighs the flimsy reasoning behind your position.

Secondly, this whole "birth control" crap started (in the US anyway) because the Federal Government mandated that insurance companies had to provide the pill for "free" (not really free).


Because it has verifiable medical uses. You even acknowledge this yourself. It isn't much of an issue outside of the US.

Then the lying Sandra Fluke testified before a Congressal hearing bitching about her University not providing the pill for "free" (not really free) knowing damn good and well that Georgetown had that policy in the first place. Nothing was stopping her from going to a different Univesity.


You can read her testimony here (pdf).

Point out where she's lying, and quote it here.

Thirdly, the US Constitution is there for a reason.


Lol, of course it is. I said it's not a deity (as in, it is not sacrosanct as evidenced by its amendments, nor is it to be worshipped).

It is to protect the citizens from a over reaching Federal Government. Try reading the Tenth Amendment (enumerated powers).


I have, and it is my understanding that those states who object have taken it to court.

While you maybe perfectly happy with your government telling you what to buy, what to eat and when to take a shit, I am not.


It doesn't, and this is a straw man. No one is arguing that government has control over such things, and your risibly fantastic interpretation of the rest of the world needs attending.

Americans are fucking asleep at the wheel while our government passes unconstitutional laws like the Defense of Marriage Act, The Patriot Act, National Defense Authorization Act, and yes The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). I am sick of it, plain and simple. The 10th Amendment should also answer your question of "where in the constitution does it say anything about healthcare?"


It doesn't really, because of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessary_ ... per_Clause

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

And lastly, not one single women in the US is denied access to the "pill". Poor women can get it free and others can get it as low as 9 dollars a month WITHOUT insurance.


I'll quote Sandra Fluke:

You might respond that contraception is accessible in lots of other ways. Unfortunately, that's not true. Women's health clinics provide vital medical services, but as the Guttmacher Institute has documented, clinics are unable to meet the crushing demand for these services. Clinics are closing and women are being forced to go without. How can Congress consider the Fortenberry, Rubio, and Blunt legislation that would allow even more employers and institutions to refuse contraceptive coverage and then respond that the non-profit clinics should step up to take care of the resulting medical crisis, particularly when so many legislators are attempting to defund those very same clinics?
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:41 am
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4347Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

What Prole said. Birth control should be free (at point of delivery) as should all health care. I don't mind that my tax and national insurance goes on trying to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies, amongst other things. The alternative doesn't thrill me much.
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Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:58 am
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

Prolescum,

I agree healthcare should be free for people who are not able to pay and that is how it started out in this country back in 1752. However, the solution is not a governement run healthcare system. The government cannot do anything efficiently. Medicare and Social Social Security is a perfect example of this. As my grandfather us to say, "they could fuckup an anvil". Medicare is one of the many reason healthcare costs have sky rocketed in this country because private hospitals (another reason for high costs) know they can charge 25 fucking dollars for a toothbrush and Medicare will pay it. I am passionately opposed to a government healthcare system due to what happen to my grandfather. He was diagnosed with myelodysplastic syndromes and the doctors said with a bone marrow transplant he could live another 5-6 years, but the fucking government dinied the procedure due to his age and he died a very painful death 18 months later. . Just recently Dick Cheney had a heart transplant and there are those who believe he should not have gotten the procedure due to his age. This pisses me off beyond belief. So fuck a government run healthcare system. It may be different in your country and I hope it is.



Lol, of course it is. I said it's not a deity (as in, it is not sacrosanct as evidenced by its amendments, nor is it to be worshipped).


I do not worship the constitution but it is more than just paper with words written on it. It the law of the land and the restraints it imposes on our government should NOT be removed or ignored. As I have said before, it is there for a reason.

It doesn't really, because of:


The Commerce Clause only gives the government the right to regulate interstate, foreign and Indian commerce. It does not grant them the right to force the citizens purchase a product.

The Necessary and Proper Clause does not untie the governments hands from the enumerated powers. Meaning, it does give them extra power. They are only able to pass laws that do not violate the constitution.

Point out where she's lying, and quote it here.


Without insurance coverage, contraception can cost a woman over $3,000 during
law school. For a lot of students who, like me, are on public interest scholarships,
that's practically an entire summer's salary. Forty percent of female students at
Georgetown Law report struggling financially as a result of this policy.


http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fus ... r_list.pdf

http://liveactionnews.org/investigative ... testimony/


I'll quote Sandra Fluke:


You might respond that contraception is accessible in lots of other ways. Unfortunately, that's not true. Women's health clinics provide vital medical services, but as the Guttmacher Institute has documented, clinics are unable to meet the crushing demand for these services. Clinics are closing and women are being forced to go without. How can Congress consider the Fortenberry, Rubio, and Blunt legislation that would allow even more employers and institutions to refuse contraceptive coverage and then respond that the non-profit clinics should step up to take care of the resulting medical crisis, particularly when so many legislators are attempting to defund those very same clinics?

The key phrase in that quote is "Women's health clinics" (aka Planned Parrenthood). Every state and city have health clinics for the poor and indigent.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:59 pm
televatorUser avatarPosts: 1252Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:02 amLocation: In hell, rocking out with Satan! Gender: Cake

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

tuxbox wrote:The government cannot do anything efficiently.


Here goes this absolutist statement again... :roll: When you get down to it this statement has zero value. You can find inefficiencies in just about any mechanism if you looked hard enough.

Medicare and Social Social Security is a perfect example of this. As my grandfather us to say, "they could fuckup an anvil". Medicare is one of the many reason healthcare costs have sky rocketed in this country because private hospitals (another reason for high costs) know they can charge 25 fucking dollars for a toothbrush and Medicare will pay it. I am passionately opposed to a government healthcare system due to what happen to my grandfather. He was diagnosed with myelodysplastic syndromes and the doctors said with a bone marrow transplant he could live another 5-6 years, but the fucking government dinied the procedure due to his age and he died a very painful death 18 months later. . Just recently Dick Cheney had a heart transplant and there are those who believe he should not have gotten the procedure due to his age. This pisses me off beyond belief. So fuck a government run healthcare system. It may be different in your country and I hope it is.


Now, I truly am sorry about your grand father, but it sounds like you have a rather large emotional charge here that isn't letting you see the big picture. Yes, the US healthcare system as it is now with both government and private elements accounted for sucks big donkey balls. However plenty of other countries have shown that systems in which a government (that isn't totally run by crazy zealots) can be far more involved and get much better results. Why not consider those in your examples instead of insisting on other highly flawed microcosmic US examples? It's sort of like rigging the truth don't you think?
a·the·ism: The absence of belief in god(s)

There are no additional, claims, laws, commandments, rules, doctrines, presuppositions, stand alone ideologies, dogmas, and/or faith based beliefs required by or inevitably derived from atheism.
Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:57 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

Prolescum,

I would like to apologize for the tone of my posts. I realize now that they sound somewhat brash and wanted to let you know I was not intentionally directing my anger toward you. I would also like to apologize for the cursing. Healthcare in this country is mucked up and I am pretty passionate about it.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:33 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

televator wrote:Here goes this absolutist statement again... :roll: When you get down to it this statement has zero value. You can find inefficiencies in just about any mechanism if you looked hard enough.


Indeed, but the US government excels at it inefficiencies. Look at Amtrak, the US Postal Service, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Not to mention the GSA and the crap that is coming out of that office lately.


televator wrote:Now, I truly am sorry about your grand father, but it sounds like you have a rather large emotional charge here that isn't letting you see the big picture.


Thank you, and you could be correct.



televator wrote:Yes, the US healthcare system as it is now with both government and private elements accounted for sucks big donkey balls. However plenty of other countries have shown that systems in which a government (that isn't totally run by crazy zealots) can be far more involved and get much better results. Why not consider those in your examples instead of insisting on other highly flawed microcosmic US examples? It's sort of like rigging the truth don't you think?


I did not include any other countries healthcare systems as examples for a couple of reason. The most important one would be I am not familiar enough with any to feel comfortable enough to comment on them. Also, the US healthcare system is the one this topic is about and the US government has a history of screwing over its citizens "for the greater good". I sure as hell do not want them making healthcare decisions for me or anyone else I care about.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:49 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

tuxbox wrote:Prolescum,

I would like to apologize for the tone of my posts. I realize now that they sound somewhat brash and wanted to let you know I was not intentionally directing my anger toward you. I would also like to apologize for the cursing. Healthcare in this country is mucked up and I am pretty passionate about it.


I understand. When we're personally affected, it usually informs our views.

I had somewhat of a response to your earlier post, but I think it moves the thread outside the actual topic (putting birth control back on the agenda). I will say that I do not agree with you that Sandra Fluke is lying. She says it can cost over $3,000 during law school. I couldn't find where she gets her data from, but I'm afraid that just because you've found where it's cheaper does not make her a liar, and calling her one, as far as I'm concerned, is unfair.
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:44 pm
nophunUser avatarPosts: 63Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 5:23 am Gender: Male

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

tuxbox wrote:
televator wrote:I did not include any other countries healthcare systems as examples for a couple of reason. The most important one would be I am not familiar enough with any to feel comfortable enough to comment on them. Also, the US healthcare system is the one this topic is about and the US government has a history of screwing over its citizens "for the greater good". I sure as hell do not want them making healthcare decisions for me or anyone else I care about.



One minute you says the current US healthcare system is shit the next minute "not one single women in the US is denied access to the "pill". Poor women can get it free...". Yeah, Some can, sometimes anyway. They can with the help of your terrible system.

Socialized healthcare works in many places around the globe. You obviously know enough on the topic to understand this.
Your argument is nothing more then the U.S government screwed up in the past so they cannot be trusted. ... That is it .. That is the whole argument.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:27 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

Prolescum wrote:
I understand. When we're personally affected, it usually informs our views.

I had somewhat of a response to your earlier post, but I think it moves the thread outside the actual topic (putting birth control back on the agenda). I will say that I do not agree with you that Sandra Fluke is lying. She says it can cost over $3,000 during law school. I couldn't find where she gets her data from, but I'm afraid that just because you've found where it's cheaper does not make her a liar, and calling her one, as far as I'm concerned, is unfair.


Yeah, I completely screwed the pooch with my first post. I should have watched the entire video as it had nothing to do with the most recent controversy here in the States. Sorry WarK. :(
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:11 pm
televatorUser avatarPosts: 1252Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:02 amLocation: In hell, rocking out with Satan! Gender: Cake

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

tuxbox wrote:Indeed, but the US government excels at it inefficiencies. Look at Amtrak, the US Postal Service, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Not to mention the GSA and the crap that is coming out of that office lately.


Yeah, many government programs have undergone serious cutbacks and have had to comply with backward standards that impede or completely halt their ability to tackle the problems they are supposed to help with. Things aren't like that by accident. Government programs don't grow on trees with profuse inherent problems. Our "representatives" who have every incentive to sabotage and dismantle government competition at the bidding of their corporate bed fellows are the architects of our fine healthcare system. Completely removing any government aide would only serve to complete their goals. Is it really a surprise that programs under the guidance of corporate proxies have turned out so bad?

The postal service pretty much paid for itself until recently when they were literally obligated to fill a giant money sink in the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act. They had to...get this...fully fund pensions for 75 years. Amtrak: That's pretty closely tied to infrastructure and everyone in our government is treating it like a plague. SS: That's solvent and has enough of a surplus to pay out for most coverage for a good long time. All the hoopla you've been hearing about it lately are right wing lies in an attempt to steal your tax dollars. GSA: Yeah, great. Some idiots were caught wasting up to 800k in tax money. Throw the clowns out on their asses and lets continue to keep an eye out for this crap. I'm a bit confused as to why the Bush admin would increase their budget for such lavish things and why the Obama admin continued to allow it though... The health related programs are already the subject of this thread.

Overall, the programs either desperately need improvements or actually do/did work fine in general.

tuxbox wrote:I did not include any other countries healthcare systems as examples for a couple of reason. The most important one would be I am not familiar enough with any to feel comfortable enough to comment on them.
Also, the US healthcare system is the one this topic is about and the US government has a history of screwing over its citizens "for the greater good". I sure as hell do not want them making healthcare decisions for me or anyone else I care about.


One problem here is that you've already said this:
The government cannot do anything efficiently.


Ambiguously laying blame on "the government" can be taken to mean any government regardless of geographic position and political climate. I think then that you'd still at least have to be open to the possibility that other governments manage to at least do well enough when it comes to healthcare or say that you lack the knowledge to know if a government programs could be efficient or inefficient. Also what of efficiency? How about effectiveness? I would think that effectiveness of any program (especially one that deals with human lives) comes first above all else.

Either way this doesn't give you the basis to say that you know for a fact that any government can never get it right or at least manage to partially alleviate the large scale ailments of society and/or bring society into a new era. To be more specific to the US, where would this country be without government funded science, education, and yes even what limited healthcare aide it has provided. Sure, you can point at any number of systematic problems now, but you can't deny the very positive impacts they've had on society as a whole through out history.
a·the·ism: The absence of belief in god(s)

There are no additional, claims, laws, commandments, rules, doctrines, presuppositions, stand alone ideologies, dogmas, and/or faith based beliefs required by or inevitably derived from atheism.
Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:34 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: TED:Melinda Gates:Let's put birth control back on the ag

televator wrote:
tuxbox wrote:Indeed, but the US government excels at it inefficiencies. Look at Amtrak, the US Postal Service, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Not to mention the GSA and the crap that is coming out of that office lately.


Yeah, many government programs have undergone serious cutbacks and have had to comply with backward standards that impede or completely halt their ability to tackle the problems they are supposed to help with. Things aren't like that by accident. Government programs don't grow on trees with profuse inherent problems. Our "representatives" who have every incentive to sabotage and dismantle government competition at the bidding of their corporate bed fellows are the architects of our fine healthcare system. Completely removing any government aide would only serve to complete their goals. Is it really a surprise that programs under the guidance of corporate proxies have turned out so bad?

The postal service pretty much paid for itself until recently when they were literally obligated to fill a giant money sink in the Postal Accountability Enhancement Act. They had to...get this...fully fund pensions for 75 years. Amtrak: That's pretty closely tied to infrastructure and everyone in our government is treating it like a plague. SS: That's solvent and has enough of a surplus to pay out for most coverage for a good long time. All the hoopla you've been hearing about it lately are right wing lies in an attempt to steal your tax dollars. GSA: Yeah, great. Some idiots were caught wasting up to 800k in tax money. Throw the clowns out on their asses and lets continue to keep an eye out for this crap. I'm a bit confused as to why the Bush admin would increase their budget for such lavish things and why the Obama admin continued to allow it though... The health related programs are already the subject of this thread.

Overall, the programs either desperately need improvements or actually do/did work fine in general.

tuxbox wrote:I did not include any other countries healthcare systems as examples for a couple of reason. The most important one would be I am not familiar enough with any to feel comfortable enough to comment on them.
Also, the US healthcare system is the one this topic is about and the US government has a history of screwing over its citizens "for the greater good". I sure as hell do not want them making healthcare decisions for me or anyone else I care about.


One problem here is that you've already said this:
The government cannot do anything efficiently.


Ambiguously laying blame on "the government" can be taken to mean any government regardless of geographic position and political climate. I think then that you'd still at least have to be open to the possibility that other governments manage to at least do well enough when it comes to healthcare or say that you lack the knowledge to know if a government programs could be efficient or inefficient. Also what of efficiency? How about effectiveness? I would think that effectiveness of any program (especially one that deals with human lives) comes first above all else.

Either way this doesn't give you the basis to say that you know for a fact that any government can never get it right or at least manage to partially alleviate the large scale ailments of society and/or bring society into a new era. To be more specific to the US, where would this country be without government funded science, education, and yes even what limited healthcare aide it has provided. Sure, you can point at any number of systematic problems now, but you can't deny the very positive impacts they've had on society as a whole through out history.



When I said "the government" I was referring to the US government. As I have very little knowledge of the corruption that occurs in other countries and even less knowledge of their healthcare systems. So I am not trying to bash all systems of government from around the world. That said, I will tell you why I am opposed to a US government run healthcare system. First and foremost I am afraid that if such a system were to be put in place the government would be the ones making decisions on what treatments get approved or denied (like what happened to my grandfather). Treatment decisions should be between the doctor and the patient and not some bureaucrat in Washington DC. Secondly, if the government were in charge of healthcare I would be afraid they would start passing laws that limit individual freedom when it comes to what products we can or cannot consume. That dictator of a mayor in New York City has already proven that to be the case with his ban on salt. Which is fine considering that law was local and if people do not like it they can move to another city or state. But if the federal government passes similar laws then we are just screwed.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:33 am
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