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Your thoughts on abortion

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Your thoughts on abortion
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NemesiahPosts: 429Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 8:00 amLocation: Mexico Gender: Male

Post Your thoughts on abortion



After watching this video I thought I would ask you guys:

Are you as an atheist opposed to abortion?

What are your reasons for this?

If you are religious and wish to contribute please feel free to do so but please do mention which creed you follow.

Thanks!

Ed.
Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:37 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4347Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Are you as an atheist opposed to abortion?


I'm not opposed to it in general, however I'm not a supporter of abortion as contraception

What are your reasons for this?


There are valid medical, ethical and social reasons why abortion is necessary in specific circumstances. People conflate pro-choice with pro-abortion, which is false. Pro-choice means exactly that; choice. The choice to keep the child, the choice to put them up for adoption, and the choice to abort, amongst others.
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:20 pm
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2995Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

As australopithecus mentioned, I am opposed to abortion being viewed as an alternative to contraception, because if anything else it costs our health service a lot more time and money than it costs you to buy a condom etc.

Aside from that I have no issue with it. I see no moral reason why a woman should be forced to endure something as life changing as having a child, or simply to go through pregnancy if that is not what she wants. Of course we should look to decreasing the amount of unwanted pregnancies by ensuring that people are educated about safe sex and that contraception is freely available, but I see no good reason to oppose abortion.
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Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:43 pm
NemesiahPosts: 429Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 8:00 amLocation: Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

I just realized that I did not put what I think about abortion, for the record am an atheist.

I believe a woman should be able to control her own body thus for me abortions are ok, even as contraception (it is a very expensive and invasive form of contraception but it is after all her body).

For me the issue is time, at 1 week you are aborting a few cells, at 12 I believe the nervous system has not started functioning yet so still what you are aborting is nothing more than biomass, however at 6 months or 7 months that is (for me at least) no longer a fetus, it is a small baby (It may no be able to survive on it's own, but I think some thoughts and feelings do cross through its little brain), and while a woman has rights over her own body I believe the creature inside her should have some sort of rights also. At 8 months old, the kid is already shaving, smoking and reading his stock options in there, that is a person; taking the baby out is no longer an abortion, it is called giving birth, congratulations you are now a mommy, hope the fucker moves out before he is 20.

This however is a very fuzzy area since being conected by the umbilical cord, one cound argue that all is still the mother's body and thus it is all her domian.

Obviously I do not claim to have an answer to this, I believe a ton of people (both men and women) should talk it over extensively so that some kind of norm can be implemented. As an atheist obviously I believe that religion should not be part of the discussion but seeing how religion is closely tied to culture and people's personalities I doubt it will be left out.
Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:24 pm
VivreUser avatarPosts: 351Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 pmLocation: dungeon of despair Gender: Female

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Nemesiah wrote:I thought I would ask you guys

I just wonder - am I included or excluded to share my opinion?
Well - it's rather a mens domain to determine over female bodies - or isn't it?

Every woman should be free to decide if to carry out a pregnancy or to terminate it. A setting of a time limit I find reasonable due to health and psychological concerns.
To misuse abortion as contraception would have never come to my mind, if not mentioned here, and is in itself a contradiction. Thus I understand it could be misused as potential option.

Given it would be treated as a 'natural' right, it's the community/society as a whole to welcome and be caring for their offsprings and by that removing a lot of pressing reasons which otherwise lead to unwanted abortions.

I know it's a bit off-topic, but due to the repeated focus on Africa in the last week, I often recalled the unbearable cruel 'tradition' of "Female Genital Mutilation". And because I found this video today in my inbox I'd like to share it right here:
Darwinsgift - FGM, Islam & Secular Support
Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:02 pm
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Master_Ghost_KnightContributorUser avatarPosts: 2750Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:57 pmLocation: Netherlands Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

As an atheist, abortions doesn't really have much to do with atheism other than the fact that you are not constrain to do what the church of or choosing dictates about it. I have said this many times and I will say it again, other than not believing in any particular God, atheists in general don't have all that much in common.

I personally will never get an abortion.... but that is because I am a man, and as you know dudes don't get pregnant :D .
Ok now seriously.
I'm not against it in principle, but I also share of the opinion that we should frown upon it being used as a contraception, that is totally not ok. Also time limits are important, doing an abortion on the early stages of pregnancy that is fine, but after that its starts to be a grey area (especially when it starts to feel and have some neurological activity, then that is a no no), in those cases abortions should only be permitted on extreme medical necessity.

But if the conditions are right , I'm ok with people having an abortion.
"I have an irrefutable argument for the existence of...." NO, STOP! You are already wrong!
Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:25 pm
MetalgodBannedUser avatarPosts: 196Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

I think the reasons for keeping abortion legal have more to do with eugenics than "freedom of choice".
Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:04 pm
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Metalgod wrote:I think the reasons for keeping abortion legal have more to do with eugenics than "freedom of choice".


Then again, you also believe that homosexuality is bad, so your worldview is quite distorted.

I quite agree with Austra: Every woman should be allowed to decide for herself, but I think it's a bad idea to use abortions as a contraceptive.
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:33 pm
MetalgodBannedUser avatarPosts: 196Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

What should abortion be used for then?
Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:40 pm
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2995Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Metalgod wrote:I think the reasons for keeping abortion legal have more to do with eugenics than "freedom of choice".


Before I respond...

Care to explain this a bit further?
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:52 pm
MetalgodBannedUser avatarPosts: 196Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Laurens wrote:
Metalgod wrote:I think the reasons for keeping abortion legal have more to do with eugenics than "freedom of choice".


Before I respond...

Care to explain this a bit further?


"Freedom of choice" sounds better than "Kill unwanteds before they are born"
Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:10 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Obvious bait is obvious.
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

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Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:29 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4347Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

You remember when I said people conflate pro-choice with pro-abortion...
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:31 pm
MetalgodBannedUser avatarPosts: 196Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

australopithecus wrote:You remember when I said people conflate pro-choice with pro-abortion...


How would a "pro-choice" movement not serve the ideas of a "pro eugenical" movement?
Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:00 pm
DustniteUser avatarPosts: 531Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 9:11 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Metalgod wrote:How would a "pro-choice" movement not serve the ideas of a "pro eugenical" movement?


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"But this is irrelevant because in either case, whether a god exists or not, whether your God (with a capital G) exists or not, it doesn't matter. We both are, in either case, evolved apes. " - Nesslig20
Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:42 pm
VivreUser avatarPosts: 351Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 pmLocation: dungeon of despair Gender: Female

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion


Clinched p :mrgreen: sting to ease skipping!
Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:45 pm
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australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4347Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Metalgod wrote:
australopithecus wrote:You remember when I said people conflate pro-choice with pro-abortion...


How would a "pro-choice" movement not serve the ideas of a "pro eugenical" movement?


Eugenics deals with favouring specific physical and mental characteristics, characteristics that are very difficult to glean in utero. Typically eugenics deals with prohibiting breeding through force, not choice, and post natal infanticide rather than Pre-natal termination.

Simply put: you're talking shit again.
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:10 pm
MetalgodBannedUser avatarPosts: 196Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

Eugenics deals with keeping unwanteds from reproducing or being born.
Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:05 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4347Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

In order to produce a set of specific characteristics. So which characteristics are pro-choice advocates trying to achieve, genius?
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Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:11 pm
MetalgodBannedUser avatarPosts: 196Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your thoughts on abortion

australopithecus wrote:In order to produce a set of specific characteristics. So which characteristics are pro-choice advocates trying to achieve, genius?


I dont think many pro-choice people today have ever considered legal abortion as tool used for eugenical purposes.
Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:24 pm
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