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Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

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Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic
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thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:22 am
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1182Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

Fuck off dailymail.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

WarK wrote:Fuck off dailymail.


It's being reported everywhere. Even in local journals in Holland. Seems they are proud of it. I posted the daily mail link because it was in English.

Your current state of denial is, of course,..............expected.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:14 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1182Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:
WarK wrote:Fuck off dailymail.


It's being reported everywhere. Even in local journals in Holland. Seems they are proud of it. I posted the daily mail link because it was in English.

Your current state of denial is, of course,..............expected.


Denial about what?

Dailymail is a rag known for publishing untruths and outright lies. I won't accept anything based solely on what dailymail says.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:22 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:
It's being reported everywhere. Even in local journals in Holland. Seems they are proud of it. I posted the daily mail link because it was in English.

Your current state of denial is, of course,..............expected.


WarK wrote:Denial about what?


That a man was actually euthanized for being an alcoholic. In Holland.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:08 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1182Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:
It's being reported everywhere. Even in local journals in Holland. Seems they are proud of it. I posted the daily mail link because it was in English.

Your current state of denial is, of course,..............expected.


WarK wrote:Denial about what?


That a man was actually euthanized for being an alcoholic. In Holland.


Both You and the dailymail aren't reliable sources, to put it mildly.

So I did a search and indeed there was a guy in the Netherlands who opted for euthanasia because he was struggling with alcoholism and didn't want to live any longer.

And? What's your point? I suppose you object to people having a freedom to decide about their lives? Not unexpected.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:31 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

Don't you think that his brother or mother or father should have prevented this doctor from coming inside their home and giving him a lethal injection? If they did, it might have changed his outlook on life.

How would you feel if that, when things were not working out for you because you were drinking too much (been there, done that) and one day you tell your family that you found a doctor who will help you kill yourself and they all agree that it is the right thing for you to do?
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:12 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1182Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:Don't you think that his brother or mother or father should have prevented this doctor from coming inside their home and giving him a lethal injection? If they did, it might have changed his outlook on life.

How would you feel if that, when things were not working out for you because you were drinking too much (been there, done that) and one day you tell your family that you found a doctor who will help you kill yourself and they all agree that it is the right thing for you to do?


It's a terrible situation for everyone involved but ultimately it should be up to the person whether they want to continue living. You can't know how he felt like and what was his situation.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:33 pm
australopithecusAdministratorUser avatarPosts: 4282Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

Headline translation, minus the sensationalist agenda:

"Man chooses to end his own life within the established framework of Dutch law regarding euthanasia".

Much less Murdochy, innit?
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Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:06 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 765Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:Don't you think that his brother or mother or father should have prevented this doctor from coming inside their home and giving him a lethal injection? If they did, it might have changed his outlook on life.

How would you feel if that, when things were not working out for you because you were drinking too much (been there, done that) and one day you tell your family that you found a doctor who will help you kill yourself and they all agree that it is the right thing for you to do?

You didn't even read the article, now did you?
Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:39 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

Visaki wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:Don't you think that his brother or mother or father should have prevented this doctor from coming inside their home and giving him a lethal injection? If they did, it might have changed his outlook on life.

How would you feel if that, when things were not working out for you because you were drinking too much (been there, done that) and one day you tell your family that you found a doctor who will help you kill yourself and they all agree that it is the right thing for you to do?

You didn't even read the article, now did you?


Yes I read it. I didn't even believe it at first until I cross checked it with other resources.

I think reason you ask me this is because you feel my questions in my above quote must be in someway not valid, but you not actually able to explain why it is you feel the way you do. It is a symptom of failed world view.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:37 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

WarK wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:Don't you think that his brother or mother or father should have prevented this doctor from coming inside their home and giving him a lethal injection? If they did, it might have changed his outlook on life.

How would you feel if that, when things were not working out for you because you were drinking too much (been there, done that) and one day you tell your family that you found a doctor who will help you kill yourself and they all agree that it is the right thing for you to do?


It's a terrible situation for everyone involved but ultimately it should be up to the person whether they want to continue living. You can't know how he felt like and what was his situation.


You are right, we don't know what every other single person is feeling like or every detail of one another's situation.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:01 pm
australopithecusAdministratorUser avatarPosts: 4282Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

An individual has the right to end their life at a time they see fit. The end.

Don't agree? Don't do it. Simple.
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Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:26 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2560Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:
I think reason you ask me this is because you feel my questions in my above quote must be in someway not valid, but you not actually able to explain why it is you feel the way you do. It is a symptom of failed world view.



When you go looking for enemies, you will find them.

Now THAT is a failed world view.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:57 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

australopithecus wrote:An individual has the right to end their life at a time they see fit.


Obviously not true. I can give you many instances, even you ones you would agree with, where we rightfully prevent people from willfully killing themselves.

Btw, suicide rate among teens have skyrocketed during my lifetime.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:35 pm
DustniteUser avatarPosts: 518Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 9:11 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:Btw, suicide rate among teens have skyrocketed during my lifetime.


Asserting is fun!

Actually if you look at the suicide rates in the US, they declined in the 80s due to new antidepressants which were relatively cheaper than they are today and recent economic turmoil and low availability of healthcare and mental health services has caused it to climb back up again. Not really skyrocketing, but it is concerning.

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http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/04/22/474888854/suicide-rates-climb-in-u-s-especially-among-adolescent-girls

What that has to do with anything about the topic I have no idea. This was obviously a clickbait title run by Breitbart to elicit an emotional response to their simple minded readership. If you look at the government of the Netherlands website it's pretty clear there are guidelines in place and a review is necessary before ending someone's life at their request.

But I don't know what I expect. This is thenexttodie, a troll piece of shit that doesn't need facts to muddy up their preconceptions...
"But this is irrelevant because in either case, whether a god exists or not, whether your God (with a capital G) exists or not, it doesn't matter. We both are, in either case, evolved apes. " - Nesslig20
Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:00 am
Bango SkankUser avatarPosts: 173Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

Access to euthanasia would actually make me wanting to live longer if i had some terminal disease. To know that i can end it if the suffering becomes too unbearable is soothing. If i get some disease or something that will only get worse before i die and euthanasia is not available i will kill myself asap after the first diagnosis, when i'm still able to do it.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:42 pm
australopithecusAdministratorUser avatarPosts: 4282Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

thenexttodie wrote:
australopithecus wrote:An individual has the right to end their life at a time they see fit.


Obviously not true. I can give you many instances, even you ones you would agree with, where we rightfully prevent people from willfully killing themselves.

Btw, suicide rate among teens have skyrocketed during my lifetime.



Go on then.
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Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:56 am
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

australopithecus wrote:


Go on then.


To start with, How about when a person has been drinking, should we kill him or let him commit suicide if he says he wants to die?
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:52 pm
TreePosts: 41Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:08 pm Gender: Tree

Post Re: Dutch euthanasia law is used to kill alcoholic

australopithecus wrote:An individual has the right to end their life at a time they see fit. The end.

Don't agree? Don't do it. Simple.


You're treading into dangerous territory here. I can understand terminal illness where the person has absolutely no chance of long term survival, but rights being unalienable also means that you cannot simply forfeit them on a whim, just because you feel like it. It's how you can keep the masses from voluntarily signing off their freedoms to a tyrant.

What is the difference between consenting to be killed by another person and consenting to be a slave then? Should we allow people to voluntarily sell or place themselves into slavery and then enforce such slave contracts if they later change their minds and try to escape from their master? I don't think so, that's barbaric. Is voluntary cannibalism okay? Is necrophilia okay as long the deceased gave written consent before death? In many cases, consent alone is a poor basis to allow people to do anything they want. There's a certain level of degeneracy that just shouldn't be encouraged if you want to have a stable civilization.

People can kill themselves for stupid reasons like their girlfriend left them or whatever and many times we will be unable to do anything about it before it's too late. DOESN'T mean we have to facilitate it, doesn't mean we have to make it easy for them, in fact painful deaths are a very good deterrent to many suicides. Even if we grant that it's "their right" to end their lives, it's also my right to refuse to kill them or to give money to someone who would. Don't make us complicit in this.

There's also the issue of the Hippocratic Oath and the fact that that for most humans, normal sane humans, killing other humans can be a very traumatic experience. You can quite literally get PTSD from it even when it's not your fault like let's say the guy just stood in your way and you didn't have time to slow down even with the legal speed, and I don't mean the phony Twitter PTSD you get from trolls calling you ugly. So legally requiring medical professionals to kill someone or even to let them die just because they say they want to with no other consideration whatsoever other than "it's their right to end their life" (no it's not) is grossly immoral. If I were a doctor I would quit. I'd rather scrub toilets for a living than be legally required to kill perfectly healthy, completely innocent human beings or even to facilitate their deaths.

The idea also comes into conflict with what officers are required to do. They're supposed to act when they see someone in danger including if they try to kill themselves.

And often suicide disrupts public life. Many choose to end their life by jumping in front of an incoming train which seriously disrupts traffic for hours, makes a huge mess and costs the public and private sector money to clean up. Many times someone suicidal will be a danger to others as well.
Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:22 pm
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