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All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe

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All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe
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NemesiahPosts: 429Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 8:00 amLocation: Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe

I'm no mathematician so this may be wrong, BUT

R is the set of all real numbers

Q is the set of all fractional numbers

Both are infinite

Yet R is bigger than Q since

Q is contained in R (all fractional numbers are real numbers)

R is not contained in Q (not all real numbers are fracional numbers (irrationals such as Pi (3.1415.....) for example are not contained in Q but are contained in R))

So Mathematically speaking there are larger infinites than others.
Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:28 am
nemesissUser avatarPosts: 1259Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:29 pm

Post Re: All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe

Nemesiah wrote:I'm no mathematician so this may be wrong, BUT

R is the set of all real numbers

Q is the set of all fractional numbers

Both are infinite

Yet R is bigger than Q since

Q is contained in R (all fractional numbers are real numbers)

R is not contained in Q (not all real numbers are fracional numbers (irrationals such as Pi (3.1415.....) for example are not contained in Q but are contained in R))

So Mathematically speaking there are larger infinites than others.



think this topic is placed in the wrong location and having a wrong title... or some deity is scared that you finally discovered a way to show it's non-exsistance with sufficient reason that everyone will become atheist and world peace becomes a reality....


infinity has no (fixed) size, therefor saying on is larger then the other is wrong
it's like talking about a beginning and ending of a circle, they don't have one. only one you impose on it.
Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:45 am
Master_Ghost_KnightContributorUser avatarPosts: 2630Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:57 pmLocation: Netherlands Gender: Male

Post Re: All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe

As I have explained before. The fact that Q is a subset of R and R is not a subset of Q, is not sufficient to establish that R is a "bigger" infinite than Q (mathematically speaking, because bigger in the infinite sense doesn't have the trivial sense, the preferred word is cardinality) . Because N is a subset of Q and Q is not a subset of N, and yet Q and N are the same infinite.
"I have an irrefutable argument for the existence of...." NO, STOP! You are already wrong!
Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:10 am
prycejoshPosts: 20Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 1:57 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe

Folgora wrote:Has anybody ever thought about how an all-powerful god is actually the worst creator of all times? Humans are actually infinitely better creators.

First, let's define an all-powerful god:
-An all-powerful god is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. It is truly infinite.

Let me define "truly infinity": Mathematically, truly infinite would be R (the real numbers, C isn't necessary for this example).
-So a truly infinite set of numbers is the set R, between -inf and +inf.
-A lesser infinity would be a set within R, which is infinitely smaller than R, for example, the number of real numbers between 0 and 1 (0,1 0,2 0,3 0,31 0,32 0,33 0,331 ...). A lesser infinity still contains an infinite amount of numbers.

Now, about supposedly creating the universe (for this, I'll generously assume that the universe is infinite):
-A truly infinite god creates a lesser infinite universe (even if space would be infinite, and even if time would go on forever, there is a beginning, the axis of time is only one way infinite, which doesn't make it truly infinite).
-If we could quantify both objects (the god and the universe), the universe would be infinitely smaller than the god, making the god a terrible creator. The gap between the god object and the universe object would be infinite.

Now, about supposedly creating humans:
-An infinite god is creating a finite being.
-As before, if we could quantify both objects, the being (human in this case) is infinitely smaller than the god, making the god.
-This time around, we can compare them. The humans, being finite beings can somewhat compare with their creations. There some creations which are considered better than the creator, such as creations that helped the entire human race (ex: Newton's laws of motion, The steam engine, The automobile, The computer, The internet, etc.).
In this case, if we could quantify the objects (human and it's creation), the gap between them would be finite, which makes the human creator an infinitely better creator than any all-powerful god.

What are your thoughts on this logic?


you have to remember that we got the worst of the deal. we aint simple in our creation and the simple things in life are whats good about it. water is better than pop as one example and sleeping with your partner after marriage makes more sense. the world is getting worse without god. we cant have eternal life without god either. my brother say we are getting dumber we just create on top of what is created. that is true. we all want world peace but think wars are better than following the bible which if we did follow we would have everything we wanted.
Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:05 pm
Master_Ghost_KnightContributorUser avatarPosts: 2630Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:57 pmLocation: Netherlands Gender: Male

Post Re: All-powerful gods - the worst creators in the universe

prycejosh wrote:the world is getting worse without god.

The world is getting worse?
Was there ever a god?

prycejosh wrote:we cant have eternal life without god either.

You can't have it either way, because God doesn't exist.
I can't ride a unicorn without unicorns either.. so?

prycejosh wrote:we all want world peace but think wars are better than following the bible which if we did follow we would have everything we wanted.

What about the crusades? Can you think of a more warmongering book than the bible? ... Wait yes I can the Quoran, but that is not the point.
Peace can not be achieved by making people stupid and ignorant about the real world.
"I have an irrefutable argument for the existence of...." NO, STOP! You are already wrong!
Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:49 pm
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