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Scientific Pantheist?

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Scientific Pantheist?
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tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Scientific Pantheist?

What the hell is this? I've heard of Pantheism before but I've never heard of this. I took a test online and it gave me these results:

Image

I'm pretty sure I'm a Thomas Paine type of Deist . As I believe in a Creator, but I'm not spiritual at all, and I'm agnostic on the afterlife.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Last edited by tuxbox on Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:22 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3164Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

tuxbox wrote:What the hell is this? I've heard of Pantheism before but I've never heard of this. I took a test online and it gave me these results:

Image

I'm pretty sure I'm a Thomas Paine type of Deist . As I believe in a Creator, but I'm not spiritual at all, and I'm agnostic on the afterlife.


My understanding of pantheism is a deep reverence or worship of the natural world. I have heard it called sexy atheism, in that you still do not believe in a god(s), but you have so much respect for the natural world that it appears as a worshipping of it. Depending on how exactly it is defined (and seeing as how it has the qualifier scientific), I would consider myself (and most students of biological and geological topics) to be default scientific pantheists, regardless what other beliefs they hold.
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Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:59 pm
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tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
My understanding of pantheism is a deep reverence or worship of the natural world. I have heard it called sexy atheism, in that you still do not believe in a god(s), but you have so much respect for the natural world that it appears as a worshipping of it. Depending on how exactly it is defined (and seeing as how it has the qualifier scientific), I would consider myself (and most students of biological and geological topics) to be default scientific pantheists, regardless what other beliefs they hold.


Well I have a great deal of respect for the natural world, but I don't think it comes to the point of worshiping. That said, thanks for your response. :)
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:08 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3164Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

tuxbox wrote:
he_who_is_nobody wrote:
My understanding of pantheism is a deep reverence or worship of the natural world. I have heard it called sexy atheism, in that you still do not believe in a god(s), but you have so much respect for the natural world that it appears as a worshipping of it. Depending on how exactly it is defined (and seeing as how it has the qualifier scientific), I would consider myself (and most students of biological and geological topics) to be default scientific pantheists, regardless what other beliefs they hold.


Well I have a great deal of respect for the natural world, but I don't think it comes to the point of worshiping. That said, thanks for your response. :)


I would not call it worship either. It is that sense of respect, reverence, amazement, wonder, curiosity, and just sheer awe that comes from the natural world. To be perfectly honest, I think this problem stems from our language. There truly is not a way of stating something like that without sounding religious. Oh well.
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:37 am
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tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
I would not call it worship either. It is that sense of respect, reverence, amazement, wonder, curiosity, and just sheer awe that comes from the natural world. To be perfectly honest, I think this problem stems from our language. There truly is not a way of stating something like that without sounding religious. Oh well.


That would be they way I look at the universe as well, and I get your meaning now. It kind of sounds like the way Albert Einstein viewed the universe. I can dig that, and it almost fits me if it were not for the fact I believe the universe and everything it was created. By what or whom, I do not know?
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:53 am
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

tuxbox wrote:I believe the universe and everything it was created.


I didn't know that, but now I feel compelled to ask:
Why do you believe that?
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:50 am
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

Inferno wrote:
tuxbox wrote:I believe the universe and everything it was created.


I didn't know that, but now I feel compelled to ask:
Why do you believe that?


Everything seems to be designed, even Dawkins has said as much, even though he doesn't believe it was. Correct me if I'm wrong, but under the current Cosmological Model time and space began to exist. Which I can reason that at some point there was no time or space. I have a hard time believing that nothing turned into what we see today without some kind of help. Especially since everything seems fine tuned, for lack of a better phrase. That is why I'm a Deist. I know this video is probably considered an appeal to authority, but I'm going to post it anyway.

"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:42 am
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

I refer you only to AndromedasWake's video: Creationist Astronomy Propaganda (CRAP) debunked - Part 7: Fine tuning

I think your argument is, as I have mentioned in another thread, one of personal incredulity. You can't understand it or you can't comprehend it. I don't either, but I follow Richard Feynman's advice: Nature is the way She is and we have to accept Her that way. I certainly don't know everything there is to know about the Universe but I try to find out more every day, as I'm certain you do as well. When I find out new things, it seemingly confirms that the Universe is trying to murder me every way it possibly can and that there is no possible purpose. This is the way it really is, as far as I know and can figure out. There are excellent explanations why the Universe looks the way it does even without a creator. Or especially, what do I know. This is the way Nature is and this is the way I accept Nature.

Highlights in green.




If you expected science to give all the answers to the wonderful questions about what we are, where are we going, what the meaning of the universe is, and so on -- then I think you can easily become disillusioned and look for some mystic answer to these problems.

How a scientist can take a mystic answer I don't know because the whole spirit is to understand... Well never mind that, I don't understand that.

But anyhow, the way I think of what we are doing is; we are exploring, we are trying to find as much as we can about the world. People say to me: Are you looking for the ultimate laws of physics? No I am not -- I am just looking to find out more about the world; and if it turns out that there is a simple ultimate law that explains everything, so be it -- that would be a very nice discovery. If it turns out it is like an onion with millions of layers and we are just sick and tired of looking at the layers -- then that is the way it is.

But whatever way it comes out; it is nature is there and She is going to come out the way She is. And therefore, when we go to investigate it, we should not predecide what is it we are trying to do -- except to find out more about it.

Your problem is; why do you find out more about it. If you thought that you were trying to find out more about it because you are going to get an answer to some deep philosophical question; you may be wrong, it may be that you cannot get an answer to that particular question by finding out more about the character of nature. But I do not look at it -- my interest in science is to simply find out about the world. And the more I find out, the better it is. I like to find out.

There are very remarkable mysteries about the fact that we are able to do so many more things than apparently animals can do -- and other questions like that. But those are mysteries I want to investigate without knowing the answer to them. And so all together; I cannot believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe at large because they seem to be too simple, too connected, too local, too provincial. The Earth, he came to the Earth -- one of the aspects of God came to the Earth mind you. And look at what is out there, how can... It is not in proportion.

Anyway, it is no use arguing, I cannot argue it. I am just trying to tell you why the scientific views that I have do have some effect on my beliefs. And also another thing that has to with a question: How do you find out that something is true? And if you have all these theories of the different religions -- all different theories about the thing -- then you begin to wonder. Once you start doubting, just like you are supposed to doubt, you ask me is the science true. We say: No, no, we do not know what is true; we are trying to find out and everything is possibly wrong. Start out understanding religion by saying everything is possibly wrong -- let us see. As soon as you do that you start sliding down an edge which is hard to recover from. And so with the scientific view; or my father's view that we should look to see what is true or what may not be true. Once you star doubting, which I think to me is a very fundamental part of my soul -- to doubt and to ask. When you doubt and ask it gets a little harder to believe.

You see, one thing is I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things; but I am not absolutely sure of anything and of many things I do not know anything about; such as whether it means anything to ask why we are here and what the question might mean. I might think about it a little, but if I cannot figure it out then I go to something else. But I do not have to know an answer; I do not feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell, possibly. It does not frighten me.
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:28 pm
tuxboxLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 1172Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:05 amLocation: Vero Beach Gender: Tree

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

Inferno wrote:I refer you only to AndromedasWake's video: Creationist Astronomy Propaganda (CRAP) debunked - Part 7: Fine tuning

I think your argument is, as I have mentioned in another thread, one of personal incredulity. You can't understand it or you can't comprehend it. I don't either, but I follow Richard Feynman's advice: Nature is the way She is and we have to accept Her that way. I certainly don't know everything there is to know about the Universe but I try to find out more every day, as I'm certain you do as well. When I find out new things, it seemingly confirms that the Universe is trying to murder me every way it possibly can and that there is no possible purpose. This is the way it really is, as far as I know and can figure out. There are excellent explanations why the Universe looks the way it does even without a creator. Or especially, what do I know. This is the way Nature is and this is the way I accept Nature.

Highlights in green.




If you expected science to give all the answers to the wonderful questions about what we are, where are we going, what the meaning of the universe is, and so on -- then I think you can easily become disillusioned and look for some mystic answer to these problems.

How a scientist can take a mystic answer I don't know because the whole spirit is to understand... Well never mind that, I don't understand that.

But anyhow, the way I think of what we are doing is; we are exploring, we are trying to find as much as we can about the world. People say to me: Are you looking for the ultimate laws of physics? No I am not -- I am just looking to find out more about the world; and if it turns out that there is a simple ultimate law that explains everything, so be it -- that would be a very nice discovery. If it turns out it is like an onion with millions of layers and we are just sick and tired of looking at the layers -- then that is the way it is.

But whatever way it comes out; it is nature is there and She is going to come out the way She is. And therefore, when we go to investigate it, we should not predecide what is it we are trying to do -- except to find out more about it.

Your problem is; why do you find out more about it. If you thought that you were trying to find out more about it because you are going to get an answer to some deep philosophical question; you may be wrong, it may be that you cannot get an answer to that particular question by finding out more about the character of nature. But I do not look at it -- my interest in science is to simply find out about the world. And the more I find out, the better it is. I like to find out.

There are very remarkable mysteries about the fact that we are able to do so many more things than apparently animals can do -- and other questions like that. But those are mysteries I want to investigate without knowing the answer to them. And so all together; I cannot believe the special stories that have been made up about our relationship to the universe at large because they seem to be too simple, too connected, too local, too provincial. The Earth, he came to the Earth -- one of the aspects of God came to the Earth mind you. And look at what is out there, how can... It is not in proportion.

Anyway, it is no use arguing, I cannot argue it. I am just trying to tell you why the scientific views that I have do have some effect on my beliefs. And also another thing that has to with a question: How do you find out that something is true? And if you have all these theories of the different religions -- all different theories about the thing -- then you begin to wonder. Once you start doubting, just like you are supposed to doubt, you ask me is the science true. We say: No, no, we do not know what is true; we are trying to find out and everything is possibly wrong. Start out understanding religion by saying everything is possibly wrong -- let us see. As soon as you do that you start sliding down an edge which is hard to recover from. And so with the scientific view; or my father's view that we should look to see what is true or what may not be true. Once you star doubting, which I think to me is a very fundamental part of my soul -- to doubt and to ask. When you doubt and ask it gets a little harder to believe.

You see, one thing is I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things; but I am not absolutely sure of anything and of many things I do not know anything about; such as whether it means anything to ask why we are here and what the question might mean. I might think about it a little, but if I cannot figure it out then I go to something else. But I do not have to know an answer; I do not feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell, possibly. It does not frighten me.



Thanks Inferno for taking the time to type out the transcript from that video. I really enjoy videos, but I also enjoy reading just as much, if not more. I will be thinking really hard on what you have posted, not just in this post, but the others as well, and what Feynman has said.
"Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man." ~ Thomas Paine
Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:26 pm
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: Scientific Pantheist?

To be fair, I didn't type that, I found it somewhere. ;)
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:12 pm
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