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Your Views On Witchcraft?

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Your Views On Witchcraft?
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WaffPosts: 25Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:51 am Gender: Male

Post Your Views On Witchcraft?

Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?
Sun May 02, 2010 3:22 am
JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?

My views are that its nonsense both in general and specifically.

The underlined text is anecdotal evidence which has very low value among the scientific community.
ttyl
Sun May 02, 2010 3:46 am
Zoten001Posts: 67Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:58 pmLocation: San Diego, California

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

@Waff

So, you are asking what our opinions are on magic? Really? Does this RELLY need to be asked? Why would we think this has any more merit than an invisible non-communicative diety that no believer can prove exists? My stance on magic aka "witchcraft" is the same. It's a load of bull.

AS for you second sentence, JB said it well enough.
Sun May 02, 2010 4:35 am
YIM
OzymandyusUser avatarPosts: 986Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:02 pm

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?

Well, if he means burnings and stonings and such, its probably because witches have long claimed to have power of certain things like curses etc, and they are an easy target to blame. Also, they are an alternative to religion, and people who practiced alternatives to the popular religion were rarely treated well until more recently (still might not be treated well, but at least not many stonings and burnings at stakes and such anymore.

As for Atheist views on witchcraft - they vary. We have a couple of atheists around here who are quite enamored with wiccan ridiculousness. As you can probably guess, I think it's silly nonsense.
And in an instant all progress towards the sublime, the great and enduring in man fell away and became a monkey's trick.
Sun May 02, 2010 5:01 am
EidolonUser avatarPosts: 257Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:03 am

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote: why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?


Because they toil in things which could be potentially toxic and dangerous without any proper safety precautions.

For instance, some spell needs animal blood for some reason. They get animal blood, and there could very easily be diseases in the blood which could become zoonotic. They may need human blood for that matter, then you have hiv Hep, and every other disease that comes with it.

Another example, they may make "potions" which could be comprised of who knows what, and thoughtlessly administer it in whatever way the spell calls for. If they use herbs like say, hemlock or certain mushrooms and drink the concoction, they will essentially poison themselves. Depending on what they ingest, it may take several days for it to show symptoms, thus making them think the spell has worked, or its black magic. What alot of them don't take into account is that alot of plants are toxic and they disregard the possible consequences of not handling them in a safe manner.

Its not due to any magic or curses, but to stupidly consuming potions, or blood or doing things they believe they will be protected by via sorcery. pretty common sense stuff actually.
Worldquest wrote:I think I'm psychic....

Worldquest wrote:No. You read it.
Sun May 02, 2010 5:25 am
Lurking_LogicUser avatarPosts: 103Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:25 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?

bad things?
bad things happen to everybody
Witches, Atheists, Christians, Raliens, Trekkies, larpers, etc

Bad things happening is not something limited to witchcraft
not that I think it is anything more then a fantasy
"What a book a devil's chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering, low and horribly cruel works of nature."
Charles Darwin
Sun May 02, 2010 11:15 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2682Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?


Hi Waff

I assume you're talking about Wicca and the like here?

I think most atheists/agnostics view it as just another silly, supernatural belief for which there is no evidence.

I would really say that while atheism/agnosticism primarly deal with the question of God and gods, I think many extend their definition as covering most things supernatural. This is the kind of methodological and even philosophical naturalism that often follows, or precedes, atheism/agnosticism, but it is by no means strictly connected or mutually dependent.

So as such, atheism/agnosticism does not really deal with the question of Wicca by definition, but practically speaking, most atheists/agnostics will be likely to be methodological naturalists, and thus reject Wicca.
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Sun May 02, 2010 12:53 pm
SquawkModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2011Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:25 pm Gender: Tree

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

No idea what your average atheists view is, I suppose that would depend on the sort of atheist. If one is what I would refer to as a reasoned atheist then I would wager they would pronounce witchcraft to be bullshit. That's the position I would take.

A reasoned atheist, in this context, would refer to one who has applied critical thinking in order to arrive at a worldview consistent with observation, part of which would then be atheism. There are of course many people who are simply never introduced to the concept of a deity. Atheism itself has nothing to say on the matter.
Pope Rat: "Exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

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Sun May 02, 2010 1:48 pm
OnkelCannabiaUser avatarPosts: 156Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:46 pmLocation: Germany

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?


Bayonetta is awesome!!! What? That's not real witchcraft? But she is a witch!!

Anyway, the main difference I see between the abrahamic god and witchcraft is that the whole idea of witchcraft doesn't fall apart if some or most of the details are wrong. If the bible is flawed then it's not the word of god and, well, you know how it goes.
In that respect I consider Witchcraft to be more likely.
Sun May 02, 2010 2:16 pm
ICQ
5810SingerPosts: 982Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:51 pm

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

JustBusiness17 wrote:
Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?

The underlined text is anecdotal evidence which has very low value among the scientific community.

^^This.
Sun May 02, 2010 2:43 pm
tangoenPosts: 108Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:58 am

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Witchcraft wicca spells hoodoo nature worship and then angels, divine floods people with magic hair and people turning into salt.
one in the same. delusional by any other name
Mon May 03, 2010 2:30 am
masterjedijaredUser avatarPosts: 154Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 pmLocation: Cleveland, Ohio Gender: Male

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such.. What do you think about it in general and why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?


Years ago I hung out with a number of Wiccans or similar 'witchcraft' using individuals. They didn't ever have more bad things happen to them than other non-witchy folks. Actually, one very close friend of mine from that community is part of the top management of an entire IT division for a fortune 500 company these days. I'd say she's doing spectacularly well.

As far as my personal view? Well, I won't say if I feel that magic does or does not exist but like other religious endeavors it should not inform an individual more than observable and empirical evidence and reasoned logic. Keep the religious stuff to one's self, in my opinion, regardless of the particular religion.
Mon May 03, 2010 11:52 pm
masterjedijaredUser avatarPosts: 154Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 pmLocation: Cleveland, Ohio Gender: Male

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Eidolon wrote:
Waff wrote: why do bad things usually happen to the ppl who practice them?


Because they toil in things which could be potentially toxic and dangerous without any proper safety precautions.

For instance, some spell needs animal blood for some reason. They get animal blood, and there could very easily be diseases in the blood which could become zoonotic. They may need human blood for that matter, then you have hiv Hep, and every other disease that comes with it.

Another example, they may make "potions" which could be comprised of who knows what, and thoughtlessly administer it in whatever way the spell calls for. If they use herbs like say, hemlock or certain mushrooms and drink the concoction, they will essentially poison themselves. Depending on what they ingest, it may take several days for it to show symptoms, thus making them think the spell has worked, or its black magic. What alot of them don't take into account is that alot of plants are toxic and they disregard the possible consequences of not handling them in a safe manner.

Its not due to any magic or curses, but to stupidly consuming potions, or blood or doing things they believe they will be protected by via sorcery. pretty common sense stuff actually.


Of the community I just mentioned, they were all pretty decently educated and they never did anything with blood. At most there was ritual wine. And then perhaps ritual tipsiness a bit later. I haven't even heard of any Wiccans (or similar) actually doing any potions requiring blood. Perhaps rebellious teenagers but that's not really for religious purposes to begin with and certainly is not communities of honest practitioners.
Mon May 03, 2010 11:58 pm
tangoenPosts: 108Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:58 am

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

masterjedijared wrote:
Of the community I just mentioned, they were all pretty decently educated and they never did anything with blood. At most there was ritual wine. And then perhaps ritual tipsiness a bit later. I haven't even heard of any Wiccans (or similar) actually doing any potions requiring blood. Perhaps rebellious teenagers but that's not really for religious purposes to begin with and certainly is not communities of honest practitioners.


well maybe if they just called themselves nature worshipers or pagans then people would be less inclined to think of bloody rituals. You cannot blame someone for thinking a witch does certain things. It's like the swastika, you really cannot blame someone for thinking it's a symbol of hate. Unfortunately some words just get re-branded over the years in spite of what the true meaning might be.
Tue May 04, 2010 12:14 am
masterjedijaredUser avatarPosts: 154Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 pmLocation: Cleveland, Ohio Gender: Male

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

I completely agree. The Christian culture, especially in the States, has demonized most (if not all) forms of alternate religious systems. This includes stomping at any opportunity on groups like paganism, Wicca etc and also the non religious atheism. Quite a mess of bigotry really.
Tue May 04, 2010 12:46 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2682Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

masterjedijared wrote:Of the community I just mentioned, they were all pretty decently educated and they never did anything with blood. At most there was ritual wine. And then perhaps ritual tipsiness a bit later. I haven't even heard of any Wiccans (or similar) actually doing any potions requiring blood. Perhaps rebellious teenagers but that's not really for religious purposes to begin with and certainly is not communities of honest practitioners.


[Bold added for emphasis.]

Lol
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Tue May 04, 2010 9:13 am
GiliellUser avatarPosts: 1218Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:29 am Gender: Female

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Waff wrote:Ive never really heard atheists/agnostics' views on Witchcraft and such..

Because there's no such thing as an atheist/agnostic view on anything except the existence of gods. Beyond that, atheism ranges from non-theistic buddists to materialistic (in the philosophical sense) naturalists.

Look at this forum. At our best we have a common view on 2+2 but that's about it. ;)

I haven't even heard of any Wiccans (or similar) actually doing any potions requiring blood. Perhaps rebellious teenagers but that's not really for religious purposes to begin with and certainly is not communities of honest practitioners.

No true scotsman...
Wiccans call themselves witches and say they practise witchcraft. Fine.
Yet historically that word doesn't refer to Wiccans since that is a religion made up in the 20th century. They have no monopoly on the words "witch" "witchcraft" or "honest practitioner".
Make a survey, ask 1.000 people (of course trying to include all groups and ages of society, as in any survey that's worth its name, not only college students) and see how many even ever have heard about Wiccans. My estimates would be less than 20%, probably less than 10%, but all would have an idea what "witchcraft" means.

As with all supernatural/religious claims, I take the sceptic naturalit approach: give me evidence. Why should I believe in something where there's no evidence for?
So, even if most wiccans are generally speaking nice and tolerant people and often allies in the fight against christian supremacy and for freedom of religion, I wouldn't want them in the position christians are ar,´t the moment either
Go to heaven, we don't want you in hell with us!
Most people don't object to discrimination and oppression as such, they only object to being at the receiving end
Wed May 05, 2010 7:23 am
masterjedijaredUser avatarPosts: 154Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 pmLocation: Cleveland, Ohio Gender: Male

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Giliell wrote:Yet historically that word doesn't refer to Wiccans since that is a religion made up in the 20th century. They have no monopoly on the words "witch" "witchcraft" or "honest practitioner".
Make a survey, ask 1.000 people (of course trying to include all groups and ages of society, as in any survey that's worth its name, not only college students) and see how many even ever have heard about Wiccans. My estimates would be less than 20%, probably less than 10%, but all would have an idea what "witchcraft" means.


I completely agree, however I have and do know Wiccans, non-Wiccan pagans and other folks who practice magic. Of all the folks I know who thus practice magic not a single one of them utilize blood of anyone or anything except grapes. Sometimes other similar inebriating vegetables. I think that during one ritual I visited they sacrificed a beet.

I would also mention that even though most non-magic practicing individuals may think they have an idea of witchcraft is they don't actually know what it is or what it's practice entails. As an immediate reference, the OP sums up the misconstrued, misrepresented and wrong idea of what witchcraft is as it is practiced in modern times.

Giliell wrote:So, even if most wiccans are generally speaking nice and tolerant people and often allies in the fight against christian supremacy and for freedom of religion, I wouldn't want them in the position christians are ar,´t the moment either


I agree on this :)
Wed May 05, 2010 5:47 pm
GiliellUser avatarPosts: 1218Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:29 am Gender: Female

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

masterjedijared wrote:
I completely agree, however I have and do know Wiccans, non-Wiccan pagans and other folks who practice magic. Of all the folks I know who thus practice magic not a single one of them utilize blood of anyone or anything except grapes. Sometimes other similar inebriating vegetables. I think that during one ritual I visited they sacrificed a beet.

A beet?
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
The sole fact that whatever deity was adressed didn't grill them on the spot probably proves its absence :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would also mention that even though most non-magic practicing individuals may think they have an idea of witchcraft is they don't actually know what it is or what it's practice entails. As an immediate reference, the OP sums up the misconstrued, misrepresented and wrong idea of what witchcraft is as it is practiced in modern times.

Wiccan (or any other neo-pagan cult) witchcraft.
Harry Potter practises witchcraft and probably every kid in the western world who wasn't sent ti Jesus Camp can give you a clear account of what that witchcraft is.
That "definition" is not worse or inferior to "Wiccan Witchcraft".
As I said, most people wouldn't ever have heard about Wiccans, but surely about Harry Potter
Go to heaven, we don't want you in hell with us!
Most people don't object to discrimination and oppression as such, they only object to being at the receiving end
Wed May 05, 2010 9:43 pm
IvantheLizardUser avatarPosts: 39Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:08 amLocation: I am... not at liberty to say. Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Your Views On Witchcraft?

Witchcraft, the least threatening and most entertaining religion I've seen. It's still nonsense, but the amusement value is high. Salem, MA on Halloween is a blast.
Common Sense: So rare that it's a goddamn superpower.
Sat May 08, 2010 5:28 am
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