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Young Earth Creationists are fun

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Young Earth Creationists are fun
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sckewerPosts: 5Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:35 pm

Post Young Earth Creationists are fun

So I came across this young earth creationist, and when it was finally pointed out that we can see stars that are billions of light years away, he argued that God changed the speed of light to allow us to see those stars. I started showing him the math but he wouldn't listen. I will grant that it is absurd enough to be a troll, but yet I have heard of rare young earth creationists, and they would have to do something like that to explain the stars. Its why we need to protect the night sky.
Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:39 pm
ImprobableJoeLime TordUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

I've heard that "argument" before. It is nothing more or less than an attack on the very concept of knowing. It is a way for creationists to celebrate and encourage ignorance. That sort of "argument" reduces down to "God did it, God can do anything and everything, and everything MUST be twisted to fit the Bible no matter how much the evidence contradicts it." The evidence that the earth and universe are staggeringly old? Proof that "God" can make young things look old. All the evidence for evolution? Proof that either "God" can make things look evolved, or proof that Satan is manipulating the evidence. You don't ever have to admit a single flaw in your mythology, because the first rule is that the mythology is perfect, and the second rule is that the evidence must be twisted or ignored in order to maintain the belief that the mythology is perfect.
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:01 pm
Raistlin MajerePosts: 228Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

The best thing to do with these people is to pose a very simple question to them.

"If god is omnipotent, then why can't he create an immovable rock?"

For us, the answer is simple. There is no omnipotent god.
For them, it is impossible to answer.
Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:20 am
irmerkUser avatarPosts: 351Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:42 amLocation: California, USA Gender: Male

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

I like both of the responses up there ^.

Still, apparently this person thinks it is a matter of either God made the new look old or it is just actually old. Why agree it is just old? Maybe because it is consistent with all other worldviews and everyday decisions, assumptions and conclusions. Why believe God did it? Let me more simply explain why not believe God did it: It is just as invalidated as any crazy idea I personally could come up with - including all of the contradictory ideas already created, such as the flying spaghetti monster. So, weigh those choices and guess what is more logical to accept?
Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:28 am
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felixthecoachUser avatarPosts: 198Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:29 pmLocation: U.S. Tennessee

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

What? God can't create an immovable rock? I..I dont know what to do. I have to talk to my pastor...bbl!
"See, God created us so that we could worship him. If we don't do what we were created for, God puts us in a puddle of hot melted rock forever. If you don't get what I'm telling you, you DESERVE to go to hell for being so stupid."
Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:38 pm
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MagnaMaterUser avatarPosts: 4Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:34 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

Raistlin Majere wrote:The best thing to do with these people is to pose a very simple question to them.

"If god is omnipotent, then why can't he create an immovable rock?"

For us, the answer is simple. There is no omnipotent god.
For them, it is impossible to answer.


I thought there are a lot of unmoveable rocks out there... *thinks a bit more*
well, you can go and cut them up in small pieces, then they'll all be moveable...


but as involuntary commedians they are indeed very funny, I use them as my entertainment :mrgreen:
Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:46 am
orpiment99User avatarPosts: 127Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 6:31 am

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

Raistlin Majere wrote:The best thing to do with these people is to pose a very simple question to them.

"If god is omnipotent, then why can't he create an immovable rock?"

For us, the answer is simple. There is no omnipotent god.
For them, it is impossible to answer.

The problem is, then they argue that god could create an immovable rock, if he wanted to. In my experience, some of these people can excuse their god on anything.
It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand- Mark Twain
Morality is the theory that every human act must be either right or wrong, and that 99 % of them are wrong- Henry Louis Mencken
Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:09 am
another_mutantPosts: 7Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:06 am

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

SN197A is also a good one to bring up in such arguments. If the speed of light was higher in the past, SN1987A is a larger object, meaning it is actually farther away.
Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:24 am
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RhyszHappy CamperUser avatarPosts: 93Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:04 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

another_mutant wrote:SN197A is also a good one to bring up in such arguments. If the speed of light was higher in the past, SN1987A is a larger object, meaning it is actually farther away.


You don't honestly believe a YEC would fall for that do you? God must have made it that way to make it more Beautifull or to test our faith.

"When in doubt, just ad Skydaddy"

Regards,
Rhysz
BTWDL (Behead Those Who Don't Laugh)

Mateable, not dateable

The High Potentate of the Holy Church of Pantyism, The LoR board's first religion dedicated to the worship of the female form!
Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:25 pm
another_mutantPosts: 7Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:06 am

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

LOL... well, for the dogmatic, you are no doubt right. I have run into a few stubbornly dogmatic enough to ignore any arguments & keep posting their disproven conjecture as fact.

For the others, SN1987A sometimes brings them into the "god created light in transit"... to which I point out that a complete detailed history created by the creator of the universe is no less real than the universe itself, so the scientists are still right, because they are observing a real history.

(for more fun, you could ask them why you should believe the Bible when it doesn't match the Word of God. )
Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:36 am
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infraredUser avatarPosts: 48Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:58 amLocation: My relative location is none of your business

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

WOAH, wouldn't light sped up be different that visible light? you know, FUCKING MICROWAVES?
Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:37 am
Aught3ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 4290Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:36 amLocation: New Zealand Gender: Male

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

Longer wavelength not faster speed
Wanderer, there is no path, the path is made by walking.
Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:45 am
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JosanUser avatarPosts: 426Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:56 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

Raistlin Majere wrote:"If god is omnipotent, then why can't he create an immovable rock?"


I find this question amusing, but not really all that mind-boggling. If there was a god who was omnipotent, he would not be able to create a rock he himself could not move, as such a thing would be impossible by definition. It is similar to the old "What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?" question.
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Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:55 am
PJDesseynUser avatarPosts: 67Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:08 amLocation: Flandres, Belgium

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

the thing about that question is, that if a God is omnipotent and created everything, then he has the power to control energy and matter. this means that, no matter how strong or how immovable the rock is, he can control matter anyway and move this material rock.

as for an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object: they both get destroyed by the impact OR the unstoppable force goes right through it. (tachyons and stuff)
Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:51 pm
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JosanUser avatarPosts: 426Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:56 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

PJDesseyn wrote:as for an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object: they both get destroyed by the impact OR the unstoppable force goes right through it. (tachyons and stuff)


Well, the whole point is that both cannot exist by definition. Because what would happen if they did exist and they meet? Well, if as you said they both get destroyed, they were never unstoppable or unmovable in the first place were they? It it simply an impossible thing as if one exist, then the other can not. It is wordplay.
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Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:06 pm
PulsarUser avatarPosts: 872Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:52 pmLocation: Belgium

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

another_mutant wrote:SN197A is also a good one to bring up in such arguments. If the speed of light was higher in the past, SN1987A is a larger object, meaning it is actually farther away.

No, that's a common misconception (shanedk made that error too in one of his vids). In fact, the distance of SN1987A is independent of the speed of light in the past. I'll try to explain.

The distance is calculated from the time difference between direct light from the star and light which traveled first to the inner ring. Let's call the distance between the star and the inner ring d. The first beam travels from the star to us, while a second beam first travels to the ring, and then from the ring to us. That means that beam 2 lags a distance d behind beam 1. Now suppose, while both beams are underway towards us, that the speed of light changes. Then the speed of both beams would change, but if both beams are affected in the same way (a reasonable assumption), then their relative distance d would still be the same.
Finally, beam 1 hits us at a time t1, and beam 2 hits us at a t2. The distance between them is then simply d = c*(t2-t1), with c the current speed of light. If c had been different, then the time delay t2-t1 would also have been different, but we would still find the same value for d. And using trigonometry, we can calculate from d the distance of the supernova.

See also here.
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

Science doesn’t know everything … religion doesn’t know ANYTHING.
Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:29 am
boonwPosts: 53Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:08 amLocation: Aurora ON Canada

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

sckewer wrote:So I came across this young earth creationist, and when it was finally pointed out that we can see stars that are billions of light years away, he argued that God changed the speed of light to allow us to see those stars.


Bring up that if they believe the speed of light can change then they cant accept gravity. Mass is calculated by E=mc2. Because mass is made of energy, and C is the speed of light, then if the speed of light could change, then so would the masses of everything. This would throw all the planets out of order lol.
By the time you are done reading this, you will have realized you have wasted two seconds of your life.
Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:04 pm
Raistlin MajerePosts: 228Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

PJDesseyn wrote:the thing about that question is, that if a God is omnipotent and created everything, then he has the power to control energy and matter. this means that, no matter how strong or how immovable the rock is, he can control matter anyway and move this material rock.


Well that makes the rock movable, doesn't it? So he still didn't create an immovable rock.
Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:32 pm
OzymandyusUser avatarPosts: 986Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:02 pm

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

I've always thought the immovable arguments were silly. Undoubtedly an omnipotent being could create something immovable by every definition of moveable that was already in existence. If the being then decided to move that immoveable object, he could create a new way to move things, or simply alter the object in whatever way to make it moveable again.

Could such a being create an object that he could then not affect at all, not use his omnipotence on? Perhaps, he could CHOOSE to make such an object, and thus choose to never affect it after the moment of its creation. He would simply have to create and object that he would never have a desire or need to affect, because making an object that he would ever have any desire to interact with would immediately make it affectable. But it is still possible to imagine such an object... as mind bending as it is.

I'm not arguing that such a being exists of course, but such silly thought experiments certainly do nothing to prove or disprove the case. Though its still fun to think about I suppose.
And in an instant all progress towards the sublime, the great and enduring in man fell away and became a monkey's trick.
Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:02 pm
another_mutantPosts: 7Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:06 am

Post Re: Young Earth Creationists are fun

Back when I was a Christian & reviewing my faith, I pondered if the "unmovable rock" question was the answer to free will. Since free will and an omnipotent creator seemed incompatible, had God created free will and thus given up omnipotence.

Pulsar -

So the distance would only be off by the amount speed of light changed between the original and the outer ring, a fairly insignificant amount. Thanks for link. Will have to read up more on that.
Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:42 am
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