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Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

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Scriptural support for degeneration theory?
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Bango SkankUser avatarPosts: 173Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

All(?) creationists advocate so called "Degeneration theory", but i was wondering what scriptural support for that there is actually. Here is the three common claims that creationists use to support it:

Claim: Degeneration is a result of fall of the man.
My rebuttal: The fall had to do with knowledge of good and evil, nothing about fysical change.

Claim: People used to live hundreds of years, but because of the degeneration this is no longer the case.
My rebuttal: God capped human life to be max of 120 years after the flood (which is broken btw) like it says in Genesis 6:3. So this is not a result of degeneration but a change that God made.

Claim: People and animals used to be vegetarians, but because of the fall and result of degeneration they began consumption of animal flesh.
My rebuttal: God said after the flood that humans can now eat flesh of the animals (Genesis 9:3). So this again is not a result of fall & degeneration, but a change that God made.

Also, there was one quote from Paul in NT which is used to support degeneration theory, but sadly i cannot remember it, but i remember it to be a bit vague.


On side note i found it curious that creationists speak of intelligent design and how perfectly thing X or Y is designed, but in same breath they say everything is faulty, limited and degenerating. In all they should welcome things like junk dna, but curiously they want to point out it's not junk. Why don't they use that as a evidence how laughable broken the whole system is?
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:19 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

Hopefully leroy or Rhed will respond to this thread. It would be nice to see either one of them would actually give us their Creation Model.
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RhedUser avatarPosts: 260Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:01 amLocation: Currently on the sofa Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

Bango Skank wrote:All(?) creationists advocate so called "Degeneration theory", but i was wondering what scriptural support for that there is actually. Here is the three common claims that creationists use to support it:

Claim: Degeneration is a result of fall of the man.
My rebuttal: The fall had to do with knowledge of good and evil, nothing about fysical change.

Claim: People used to live hundreds of years, but because of the degeneration this is no longer the case.
My rebuttal: God capped human life to be max of 120 years after the flood (which is broken btw) like it says in Genesis 6:3. So this is not a result of degeneration but a change that God made.

Claim: People and animals used to be vegetarians, but because of the fall and result of degeneration they began consumption of animal flesh.
My rebuttal: God said after the flood that humans can now eat flesh of the animals (Genesis 9:3). So this again is not a result of fall & degeneration, but a change that God made.

Also, there was one quote from Paul in NT which is used to support degeneration theory, but sadly i cannot remember it, but i remember it to be a bit vague.


On side note i found it curious that creationists speak of intelligent design and how perfectly thing X or Y is designed, but in same breath they say everything is faulty, limited and degenerating. In all they should welcome things like junk dna, but curiously they want to point out it's not junk. Why don't they use that as a evidence how laughable broken the whole system is?


Hi Bango Skank,

Is the human body advancing or breaking down through the generations? When I receive mutations from my parents, I also have my own mutations. Then I pass those mutations to my kids. My kids now have my parents mutations, their mother's parents mutations, my mutations, their mother's mutations, and their own mutations. Then they will pass those mutations down to the next generations. Having cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, alzheimers, heart disease is everything but improvements or advancements. I would say evolution is going the other way; that is, degenerating.

Just because we are degenerating doesn't mean we were not designed. Like a brand new car works great, but then eventually breaks down. I won't say the car was not designed.
If evolution was in the newspaper, it would be in the funnies
Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:58 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

Oh look, Rhed had an opportunity to enlighten us on his Creation Model, yet went on to talk about irrelevant topics that have little to do with what Bango Skank asked.

Rhed wrote:Is the human body advancing or breaking down through the generations? When I receive mutations from my parents, I also have my own mutations. Then I pass those mutations to my kids. My kids now have my parents mutations, their mother's parents mutations, my mutations, their mother's mutations, and their own mutations. Then they will pass those mutations down to the next generations.


:facepalm:

Claim CB101. You should learn what mutations are before commenting on them.

Rhed wrote:Having cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, alzheimers, heart disease is everything but improvements or advancements.


Amazing how all those, for the most part, are diseases of old age, poor diet, or a combination of both. I have always been an optimistic person, thus seeing those rates going up, in the West, means that dying from flu, malaria, and starvation are way down. Rhed, do you honestly believe rates of those diseases going up are because of mutations?

Rhed wrote:I would say evolution is going the other way; that is, degenerating.


:lol:

Comments like this expose that you do not know the first thing about evolution.

Rhed wrote:Just because we are degenerating doesn't mean we were not designed. Like a brand new car works great, but then eventually breaks down. I won't say the car was not designed.


You have not shown that we are degenerating nor have you shown a way to distinguish between design and the appearance of design, thus your point is moot.
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Bango SkankUser avatarPosts: 173Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

Rhed wrote:Is the human body advancing or breaking down through the generations?"


I don't think advancing is the right word. I would say it adapts when there is pressure for it.

Rhed wrote:When I receive mutations from my parents, I also have my own mutations. Then I pass those mutations to my kids. My kids now have my parents mutations, their mother's parents mutations, my mutations, their mother's mutations, and their own mutations. Then they will pass those mutations down to the next generations. Having cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, alzheimers, heart disease is everything but improvements or advancements.


I don't know much about evolution, but i'd say those would normally be weed out by natural selection, but thanks to modern medicine...no longer the case. Also some of those are results of poor eating habits.

Rhed wrote:I would say evolution is going the other way; that is, degenerating.


My topic was about creationism, not evolution. Besides to my knowledge, evolution doesn't have any goals other than maybe pass the genes to next generation.

Rhed wrote:Just because we are degenerating doesn't mean we were not designed.


That is correct, but it does narrow down the options, such as Bible's God. God is defined to be perfect in every way, so it's creation should be perfect as well (and so do christians claim). It is not perfect, so i'd say this rules out this particular God.

I wish you'd actually address the question of my topic.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:22 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

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Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:40 pm
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Bango SkankUser avatarPosts: 173Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

One evasive answer and then silence. How disappointing.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:28 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3318Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

Bango Skank wrote:One evasive answer and then silence. How disappointing.


Well, what else were you expecting? It is not like there is a "Creation Model" that the creationists can reference.
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Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:32 pm
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Bango SkankUser avatarPosts: 173Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

he_who_is_nobody wrote:
Bango Skank wrote:One evasive answer and then silence. How disappointing.


Well, what else were you expecting? It is not like there is a "Creation Model" that the creationists can reference.


Well, they keep referring to "Creation science". I want to know the natural / supernatural mechanism for example how this thing which is called "God" made things into existence mere uttering some words.

Either they present their model or shut up forever.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:20 am
RumraketUser avatarPosts: 1170Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:49 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

This is a good question. What scriptural support is there for the claim that genomes will always detoriate "due to the fall" ?

None. There is none. It's just made up shit.
"Nullius in verba" - Take nobody's word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullius_in_verba
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:12 am
Bango SkankUser avatarPosts: 173Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Scriptural support for degeneration theory?

I gave you creationists a several days to respond...but no, you chose to remain silent. Honestly, what is your excuse? Don't you guys believe what you are proclaiming?

Fucking cowards...
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:47 am
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