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Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Forum

Forum rules

Once an issue has been solved or a satisfactory conclusion has been achieved (by discussion or an administrator decision) threads will be locked to prevent them being bumped.

Do not expect that your suggestion will be implemented regardless of how good you think your idea it is. There are many factors as to why something may be dismissed. The thread will have been locked for good reason, and your thread should serve as a reminder to others that the suggestion has already been made and implemented or dismissed.
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Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Forum
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CosmicSporkLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 929Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:36 pmLocation: UK Gender: Cake

Post Re: Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Fo

JustBusiness17 wrote:... snip ...

In any event, I do agree that the threads should be locked once the suggestion has been reviewed. One week is enough time for the community to decide what they think is interesting and worth refining, isn't it?

I guess this is where we disagree. I think locking threads is counterproductive to developing ideas. It's impossible to say how a really shitty will eventually develop. More importantly, there's no telling when it will develop. If you lock a conversation, you're pretty much doing your best to ensure it will never develop.... What happens if someone posts a fantastic idea disguised as a really shitty one based on how it was presented and all it takes is a better explanation from a different person?

When you say:
"There are many factors as to why something may be dismissed. The thread will have been locked for good reason, and your thread should serve as a reminder to others that the suggestion has already been made and implemented or dismissed."
You're essentially inhibiting any possibility for an idea to grow...

Does this section really create so many problems that it needs to be muzzled?

Seems like you are assuming that conversations will simply be cut off for seemingly no reason like some evil dictatorship. I understand how you got this idea because of those threads you were participating in being locked. The one I locked was because it had become a pissing contest between you and Prolescum, it was not productive at all and as far as I could tell a conclusion had been reached on page 1 and in various other threads previous.

A discussion will come to an end when it has been decided that it will or will not be implemented, there are various reasons why ideas may not be used, particularly when something requires a lot of development time for very little gain, or if something simply isn't possible given the resources available (which doesn't mean the idea will necessarily be forgotten). I would hope anyone here would have the ability to be able to explain themselves well enough for people to decide whether something is a good or bad idea.

You also seem to be assuming that someone will post an idea, we'll go "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" on first glance and lock it... most threads are open for weeks before being locked unless they are a simple suggestion/fix that gets implemented and no longer requires any input.

Being the developer and server admin, I have a pretty damn good idea of what is feasible and what isn't when it comes to site enhancements. If someone suggests something that simply will not work for whatever reason then I will make that decision. From a structural standpoint of the community, these things are more likely to have more of a discussion and time to develop as they aren't necessarily as black and white site enhancements.
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“Nothing is as frustrating as arguing with someone who knows what he's talking about.” - Sam Ewing
Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:59 am
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ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5009Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Fo

Hey! It was more of a penis size comparison than a pissing contest, which is a far more serious, if not quite as legitimate, form of debate...
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:19 pm
AndiferousUser avatarPosts: 2727Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:00 amLocation: Laputa Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Fo

:o

I can remember quite a few threads that devolved beyond the useful exchange of constructive ideas, and the idea of those concepts growing and expanding in an infinite exchange is a little scary to think about.
"As there seemed no measure between what Watt could understand, and what he could not, so there seemed none between what he deemed certain, and what he deemed doubtful."
~ Samuel Beckett, Watt
Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:04 am
JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Fo

If we're going to refer to this thread, lets evaluate it fairly. As Prolescum said, there was some chest thumping that needs to be considered. Another consideration is the fact that it was silently locked without explanation. Also, the thread could have benefited from moderator intervention which was noticeably absent throughout the 3.5 day flame war. In addition to simply mediating an overly heated debate, the discussion probably wouldn't have blown out of proportion if the actual decision makers had simply shared their own perspectives on the topic - which unfortunately they did not. Overall, the thread serves as an excellent example for many of the things that I'm advocating right now.

NOTE: None of the participants in that thread had been assigned moderator status at the time of the discussion.
ttyl
Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:36 am
AndiferousUser avatarPosts: 2727Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:00 amLocation: Laputa Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Fo

I kinda agree on that point. I'm not sure if you have noticed, and speaking as a member, sometimes there are ongoing sort of fights that leak into varying discussions and almost inevitably kill the possibility of that discussion going anywhere useful, and it's a bit irritating, because some of those topics have potential for interesting discussions. For a while there that happened between you and Proley, and different forumites would respond saying something to the effect of "*&%$ guys, don't do this again." It just renders interesting discussions completely useless. So yeah, they might as well have been locked.

I'm always in a philosophical angst over ideas of censorship. I've thought of bringing it up for discussion many times, but I'm never sure where to start. That makes me think that all have different backgrounds with implied values and it poses a real challenge in communication sometimes. With myself, it's with prejudices around the concept of censorship, and I say rather facetiously I LIKE CENSORSHIP because I am proud of my country's hate legislation, though I'm embarrassed to admit. I'm inclined to censor without compunction, but I really have to respect that other people just don't share those values.

I think that with the LoR beginning as a response against censorship, maybe they just made a point of not censoring as much as possible. And it appears that maybe there has been a struggle to find a balance lately. Not to speak for those involved, because it's just a theory of mine. Because that does lead to the appearance of inconsistency and possibly injustice.

I'm thinking it must be a pain to own a forum based on principles and reason, that isn't required to operate on either principle or reason in any way, while being both reasonable and principled to a variety of different people who have inherently different opinions on both. So maybe that is where the inconsistencies become the most evident?

Eff that. I'm abusing my tyrannical control and starting a thread. :twisted:
"As there seemed no measure between what Watt could understand, and what he could not, so there seemed none between what he deemed certain, and what he deemed doubtful."
~ Samuel Beckett, Watt
Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:43 am
AndromedasWakeLeague LegendUser avatarPosts: 598Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:38 pmLocation: Captain's Chair, League HQ Gender: Cake

Post Re: Unresolved Locked Threads in the Issues & Suggestions Fo

I think if it has been locked because it isn't feasible, that's fair grounds to propose something different which is feasible in a separate thread. Ultimately on the subject of feasibility, Spork will have the last word, because he's the one that has to do it. For an idea which has been rejected on the grounds that Spork or I just don't want it to be a part of the site, that's a degree of tyranny and veto-abuse the users are going to have to live with.

The purpose of locking threads which have been responded to in the I&S forum is to keep the active ones at the top, and prevent there from being too many active ones to keep up with. I would see no problem with a user beginning a new thread with a very similar idea (provided it is not identical and accounts for the reasons surrounding its prior rejection) but I do agree that any thread which is locked should end with a message from either myself or Spork indicating why it was locked, whether it be resolved or rejected on some grounds.

It's important to note that whilst we'd like to make changes which reflect the community's wishes all the time, the scope of those changes is going to be fairly narrow - cosmetic, functionality etc.

When it comes to changes in management we all have to bear in mind that forum management is quite unique and requires considerable trust. Of course, if people didn't overcome the trust barrier, no one would sign up and give me/Spork their email address and IP address. I maintain that overall management of the site will only change at the administrators' joint discretion, but if a huge wave of complaints were lodged about something (such as thread locking) we would certainly not ignore that. As it stands, complaints have been very minimal, and I think it's a fair compromise to have a reason given for thread-locking, even if it does kill what might have become a constructive discussion, and allow the OP to begin again. Hopefully this will serve as a deterrent to "feeding the trolls", by which I mean rather than responding to an obviously inflammatory post, ignore it and report it.

If the moderator who sees the report concludes that the reported post is obviously an attempt to derail the thread, they can single out that user and warn them without having to lock the thread.

I had a whole other paragraph here but I removed it, because it was somehow going onto a different topic (OMG THREAD DERAIL)
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Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:50 pm
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