Elsewhere on the internet...

The League of Reason has some social media accounts! You can find us on Facebook or on Twitter for some interesting links and things.

Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
 [ 43 posts ] 
Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate
Author Message
cbyrd563Posts: 1Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:51 pm

Post Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

I'm kind of surprised no one has picked up this topic yet. The fundies in my country (who also support creationism and homophobia most of the time) are STILL going on about this even after the evidence is thrown in their face.

I thought this was a settled issue when every legitimate news organization saw and POSTED our Preisident's birth certificate, in addition to it being posted on FactCheck.org's website. There's also the secondary evidence of newspaper publications announcing his birth.

To top it off my former store manager at work BELIEVED this tripe. I transferred to a new store with a new manager and am his assistant manager now. How can people who are otherwise rational, thoughtful, and successful as my former manager shake their head no in the face of the evidence? He's not particularly religious, irrational, or thoughtless, although he is a Republican in the fiscal if not social sense. What are your thoughts people?
Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:59 pm
e2iPiUser avatarPosts: 648Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:40 amLocation: Deltax Deltap>~h/(4 pi) Gender: Cake

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

People who hold a belief for emotional rather than rational reasons often latch onto any possibility of factual conformation of their belief with the tenacity of a rabid pit bull. Even after conclusive evidence is presented to the contrary, true believers will go through incredible mental gymnastics to reject that evidence and substitute their own. This is true on both sides of the political isle, but it seems to be much more prevalent in the republican party, especially since they have been taken over by the fundamentalists christians. I guess they brought a lot of practice at supressing cognitive dissonance. This is one of the main reasons I no longer support the Republican party, even though I am, for the most part, a fiscal conservative. I just can't buy into the sweeping social agenda they now have.

-1
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
-George Bernard Shaw
Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:45 pm
bruhaha2User avatarPosts: 49Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:13 amLocation: Georgia, USA

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

*singing* I Love Conspiracies!

This junk is great. The weirder the claim, the deeper the hook in my cheek. Not that I believe any of them, they are just so fun to listen to... like any good story really.

Most of this is the credit to Fox and those affiliated. Too much media means too much bull, and the fact is there are too many viewers not willing to research the information themselves. Fox has an obligation to it's conservative, right-wing viewers in that if any sort of liberal, non-christian (or non-American, they'll sometimes call it) ideals start to pick up, they must attack, and they do so. Sometimes they do this quite well, but in the end I think it's more for ratings than anything.

My stance is, I don't know too much about the "President" Obama is. Sure, I can read all about him in his biographies and what not, but that's the man, not the president. We are what... six months into this presidency? I think it will take some more time to truly judge his leadership.
Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:18 am
JosanUser avatarPosts: 426Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 10:56 pm

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

McCain, having been born in the (Panama) Canal Zone, if elected would have become the first president who was born outside the current 50 states. This raised a potential legal issue, since the United States Constitution requires the president to be a natural-born citizen of the United States. A bipartisan legal review[213] and a unanimous but non-binding Senate resolution[214] both concluded that he is a natural-born citizen.


Why arn't Fox News jumping on this aswell? Hmm...
Image
Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:44 am
MappUser avatarPosts: 324Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:12 pmLocation: Washington, DC, USA

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Jon Stewart did a great piece on this. A while ago there was a woman sitting in for Nutjob Mouthpiece Lou Dobbs, who did an indepth report on the Obama Birth Certificate conspiracy. She not only found the birth announcement in a Honolulu newspaper but she got a letter from the governor affirming the birth certificate. So what does Lou Dobbs do the moment he gets back in his chair? "Questions still remain about Obama's birth certificate." It's amazing how impervious to facts these people are.
Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:59 pm
DontHurtTheIntersectUser avatarPosts: 146Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:16 pmLocation: U.S.A

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Yeah, sadly this is the fate of conspiracies; they never die. Evidence is just another opinion to them.
"well if I don't get to take surveys or sell my body, it's a deal breaker"

DietBroccoli
Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:35 pm
MercUser avatarPosts: 43Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:59 amLocation: USA

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Saddest part is that his birth certificate WAS released and people are saying that it's fake. I bet you anything they could release the actual thing (not a copy) and people would say that the CIA altered it. There's no winning this one. It's so stupid. :facepalm:
Cry "science" and let loose the army of reason!
Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:26 am
wafflez205User avatarPosts: 30Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:12 amLocation: Nanaimo B.C. Canada

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

This is proof that our world is filled with idiots
Guns don't kill people. I DO!
Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:09 am
DontHurtTheIntersectUser avatarPosts: 146Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:16 pmLocation: U.S.A

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Saddest part is that his birth certificate WAS released and people are saying that it's fake


It's more than that, even. Not only were photos of the original certificate released, but TWO newspaper articles that posted his birth on the behalf of his grandparents. I think that the only argument these birthers are gonna have now is that someone used a time machine, traveled back 1961, and doctored the birth certificates in Hawaii.
"well if I don't get to take surveys or sell my body, it's a deal breaker"

DietBroccoli
Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:46 pm
MarcusUser avatarPosts: 284Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:26 pmLocation: NW England

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

The problem with this type of conspiracy theory is that all evidence to the contrary is actually taken to be evidence of the "coverup" that is clearly being done. Who else but the president could have secretly obtained and doctored an original birth certificate as well as every extant copy, on paper, microfiche and electronic formats, of two newspapers, whilst ensuring everyone who has evidence of this doctoring is kept quiet?
"Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house." - Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love
Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:10 pm
DeistPaladinUser avatarPosts: 337Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:35 pmLocation: Louisville, KY USA

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Here's the funny part, IMHO.

Even IF the conspiracy were true (yeah, Obama's mom flew to Kenya to give birth over there for no reason and then filed false birth announcements in newspapers in Hawaii), it would make no difference.

According to laws previously passed to clarify the constitutional requirement, if at least one of your parents was an American citizen, you're a citizen and eligible to be president. This is the case even if you were born on foreign soil.

That's why John McCain, born in Panama, could have been president if he had been elected.
"The (only) Word of God is the Creation we behold"
- Thomas Paine

http://www.godvsthebible.com
Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:58 pm
WWW
GoodKatUser avatarPosts: 776Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:07 pmLocation: Hell (South Carolina)

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

cbyrd563 wrote: How can people who are otherwise rational, thoughtful, and successful as my former manager shake their head no in the face of the evidence?

Ask Paul Simon:

"Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest."
My discussions are a search for truth, and for that search to be honest, all parties involved must be open to the prospect of being wrong.
What is there to gain in guessing about that which cannot be known?
Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:59 pm
e2iPiUser avatarPosts: 648Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:40 amLocation: Deltax Deltap>~h/(4 pi) Gender: Cake

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

DeistPaladin wrote:According to laws previously passed to clarify the constitutional requirement, if at least one of your parents was an American citizen, you're a citizen and eligible to be president. This is the case even if you were born on foreign soil.

True, this is why I always wondered what the fuss was about anyway, he mother was a US citizen, it shouldn't matter where he was born.

DeistPaladin wrote:That's why John McCain, born in Panama, could have been president if he had been elected.

McCain was actually born in the "Panama Canal Zone" which, at the time, was sovereign US territory.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
-George Bernard Shaw
Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:22 pm
DeistPaladinUser avatarPosts: 337Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:35 pmLocation: Louisville, KY USA

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

True, this is why I always wondered what the fuss was about anyway, he mother was a US citizen, it shouldn't matter where he was born.


The conspiracy has an additional layer, apparently added to meet the need to explain this away:

The allegation is that Obama's mother was underage. She wasn't. In fact, she was legally married to Obama's father at the time. Of course, all of these records are lies and forgeries. She was underage and not legally married. Not listening. Lalalalalalalala...

I'm not sure if that would, if it WERE true, make any difference but they feel it does.

So to review:

The live birth certificate is a forgery.
The two separate announcements of his birth in two different newspapers are fraudulent.
The marriage was either illegal or also a forgery.
Any records that might confirm his mom wasn't underage were obviously doctored.
The Republican governor of Hawaii is obviously in on the scam.

The logical fallacy here is called "Ad Hoc Hypothesis".

Thanks for the note on McCain. If he were born in another country, he could still be president if he had been elected.
"The (only) Word of God is the Creation we behold"
- Thomas Paine

http://www.godvsthebible.com
Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:15 am
WWW
JacobEvansUser avatarPosts: 626Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:01 am

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

There is really no need to give any attention to this. He has all the evidence in the world proving him a citizen. The whole "birther" movement has nothing really to do with Obama's citizenship, it's just another attempt to discredit the Obama Administration.

The only people who call themselves birthers are people who are already militantly anti-Obama. It more than likely just started as a rumor (such as the secret Muslim rumor) and it just spread like wild fire among those who would wish that the rumor were true because they don't agree with his administration. Of course there are the run of the mill idiots who might have liked Obama and now think he's some foreigner, but stupidity will always happen.

It's definitely a stupid thing to believe, but imagine if you heard a rumor from another Atheist that you respect and trust that Ray Comfort had a gay experience with Kirk Cameron. While we here are of course focused on reason and logic, we are still human and we would probably instantly give the rumor at least SOME credibility and many of us would probably accept it as true right away and before they can think about it, they tell someone else and the cycle continues and after a while after the vast majority of us accept that it is only a rumor and has no evidence to support it, there are going to be a few boneheads who would still believe it.... That's pretty much the scenario that Birthers are in, except they aren't as likely to accept their belief as baseless rumors as they aren't a group formed on the basis of logic and reason.

Well that's my 2 cents.
Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:40 am
DeistPaladinUser avatarPosts: 337Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:35 pmLocation: Louisville, KY USA

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

imagine if you heard a rumor from another Atheist that you respect and trust that Ray Comfort had a gay experience with Kirk Cameron.


You know, I had my suspicions when they started playing with that banana together... oh, damn, that was just a hypothetical wasn't it? I walked right into that one.
"The (only) Word of God is the Creation we behold"
- Thomas Paine

http://www.godvsthebible.com
Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:23 am
WWW
ImprobableJoeLime TordUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

If you want to have some real fun with nutty folks, sell them a Republic of Kenya birth certificate for Barack Obama.

Then, after they've run with it and filed lawsuits based on it, point out that the name of the hospital is wrong, the age and birthplace of the father is wrong, the registrar is a type of organic hippie shower cleaner, and Kenya wasn't officially a republic until almost a year after the date on the document. Oh, and the number of the document is "47O44"... Obama is 47 years old, and he's the 44th president.

Coincidence? Or did Obama go back in time and change that just for fun, while he was planting fake birth announcements?

Or did someone just hoax the nutters really hard? We'll just have to wait and see!
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:33 am
JacobEvansUser avatarPosts: 626Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:01 am

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

ImprobableJoe wrote:If you want to have some real fun with nutty folks, sell them a Republic of Kenya birth certificate for Barack Obama.

Then, after they've run with it and filed lawsuits based on it, point out that the name of the hospital is wrong, the age and birthplace of the father is wrong, the registrar is a type of organic hippie shower cleaner, and Kenya wasn't officially a republic until almost a year after the date on the document. Oh, and the number of the document is "47O44"... Obama is 47 years old, and he's the 44th president.

Coincidence? Or did Obama go back in time and change that just for fun, while he was planting fake birth announcements?

Or did someone just hoax the nutters really hard? We'll just have to wait and see!


Where do you find this stuff Joe?
Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:05 am
ImprobableJoeLime TordUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

JacobEvans wrote:
Where do you find this stuff Joe?

What do you mean?
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:37 pm
GnomesmusherPosts: 372Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:15 pm

Post Re: Nutters in the United States - Obama's Birth Certificate

Here's a new twist to this whole birther thing. The GOP pundits who are trying so hard to distance themselves from the birther nuts have their own conspiracy theory: The Democrats orchestrated the whole thing to make them look crazy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AplHq1M ... annel_page
Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:12 pm
Next
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
 [ 43 posts ] 
Return to Conspiracy Theories

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests
cron