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Zeitgeist

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Zeitgeist
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IBSpifyUser avatarPosts: 463Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:06 am Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Zeitgeist

ImprobableJoe wrote:Also, I wonder how many hours it will be before another "new" member with less than 10 posts joins the thread and pretends that the discussion we're having right now never really happened at all?


I'm guessing 4 and a half days, however they will post in one of the other 9/11 threads or even in the Venus project thread, and pretend that we've never heard their claims before and that not only did Bush personally plant the explosives in world trade center, but that the only way to fix the corrupt government is some idealistic utopia that is in fact impossible to establish because it goes against human nature
Contrary to popular belief, full-immersion holographic sex will not destroy society.

Full-immersion holographic sex achievement points will destroy society
Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:15 am
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

IBSpify wrote:
ImprobableJoe wrote:Also, I wonder how many hours it will be before another "new" member with less than 10 posts joins the thread and pretends that the discussion we're having right now never really happened at all?


I'm guessing 4 and a half days, however they will post in one of the other 9/11 threads or even in the Venus project thread, and pretend that we've never heard their claims before and that not only did Bush personally plant the explosives in world trade center, but that the only way to fix the corrupt government is some idealistic utopia that is in fact impossible to establish because it goes against human nature

Or they'll start a new thread, we'll link to the other threads, and they'll say "nowhere on the Internet is there any evidence against the conspiracy theories, and you never made any reasonable criticism of the Venus Project besides name calling."
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:12 am
IBSpifyUser avatarPosts: 463Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:06 am Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Belphegor wrote:...and you do that again, i don't care about debunked conspiracies and twin towers, the fundamental ideas have nothing to do with towers. You dodge my point and attack me ad hominem...


No, but they use the towers as part of their recruiting tactic (which is all the zeitgeist movie is)

Part one is designed to tell you that your religion can not be trusted because it's based on a lie (while i believe this is true they use a false premise to justify this message without having to delve into detail)

Part two is designed to tell you that the government can not be trusted because it is corrupt. Whether this premise is true or not is debatable, however their method of showing it is demonstrably false, and they know it's false yet they still propagate it because it's effective despite being untrue

Part three I can't truely comment on because i grew disgusted with the film about half way through part 2 so i never watched part 3, however from what i've heard it's basically them saying that all the evil in the world stems from currency

The whole video's basic theme is you can't trust anybody in power, so listen to us because we have no power and nobody takes us seriously, so we can be trusted


Belphegor wrote:it's a suggestion for a new social system that i found interesting, i do not care about twin tower hypes


It's a new social system that will never EVER occur because it is based around a flawed principle that people would actually work for a common good and not for some personal gain

Belphegor wrote: ok i'll play the dumb card, pls link me the evidences (not talking about the videos, talking about the ideas i'm talking about, witch at this point i doubt you even know what it is)


If we don't know what your talking about it's because you haven't proposed what any of those idea's are (save some bull plop about removing the monetary system), and since we're in the Zeitgeist thread, we typically assume that that we are talking about the Zeitgeist movies, or the zeitgeist movement.

The only idea i've seen you present is the removal of the monetary system, which will simply not happen, if the current monatary system collapses it will simply be replaced by another similar monetary system, systems without personal gain have been tried to be built before, it was called Communism, it didn't work then and it wont work now. It might work on a much smaller scale, but then social-economic systems are always easier to implement when we're talking about populations in the thousands rather then populations in the tens of millions


Belphegor wrote:...and responding in less than a minute says you didnt even read my post, much less the docs i sent to show my point


As was pointed out he responded 11 minutes after your post, learn to read a time stamp before you make baseless accusations, though I suppose baseless accusations are what we should expect to be the norm for the Venus Project people
Contrary to popular belief, full-immersion holographic sex will not destroy society.

Full-immersion holographic sex achievement points will destroy society
Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:37 am
Raistlin MajerePosts: 228Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

ZOMG GUYZ LOOK!!!!



The nutters commenting here are so funny :P I've been trying to cause all sorts of hell in there for them. We got NWO people, Zeitgeist people, and even the Revelations people XD

Edit: And yes, before anyone says anything, this is the same video from the RFID thread in general discussion, but since it relates to the zeitgeist crap, thought i'd post it in here for anyone that doesn't see it :P
Last edited by Raistlin Majere on Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:51 pm
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Raistlin Majere wrote:ZOMG GUYZ LOOK!!!!



You did the video embedding wrong. :lol:
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:22 pm
BelphegorPosts: 7Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:46 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

You didn't saw my documents did you? Your evidences are joking and badmouthing (as distorting) what i said. I hoped we would be discussing the stuff i presented other than what i simply wrote. We aren't, you jump in gang style considering the subject debunked and that makes it so.

I'm very disappointed, and i feel i've been mislead by the forums name, league of reason is just the name, it's more like league of joe, who doesn't need to present any substance, badmouthing is enough, and can refer back to a previous topic as debunked and when i go back his debunking is him saying stuff with no backings (with usual references to idiots and stupids to all who disagree with his view). That is really not the way im used to discussing stuff.

I hoped to be discussing the documents i linked, but i bet nobody even bothered to check them out (and no they have nothing to do with zeitgeist or its authors) they are documentaries about economic from relatively famous sources. I was making my case the the world is near a turning point, it's a fact, not just wild guess, we reached peak oil, the climate crisis, technological unemployment (do you even know what this is? or how it seems unavoidable?). If you don't care about these, for me main issue, and just care about twin towers, my bad, wrong forum for me.

I fail to see your logic when accusing me of acting like a christian, like if i've presented my case as a dogma... when i'm presenting stuff to debate, but am being badmouthed and the evidence is "use teh google" ok.

like i said i came to the forum out of advice and i'm a fan of AndromedasWake work on youtube, and was enjoying just reading though the forum (had no idea of intention to write stuff, was just going to read like i normally do), i would never enter 2 sections though, not of interest to me, and those wold be pseudoscience and conspiracy theories (yes i know many ppl put zeitgeist there, and I do try to get away from the conspiracy related subjects of the movement, non-americans don't care much for them, neither does the very author these days). i had this dumb idea of searching the forum for zeitgeist and found it. the disappointment began when i saw the sort of topics the the same category.... ok

the next years will be very different from the years recently passed, and ppl may someday call it a different name, but the ideas of the venus project will be gradually put to practice. Cutting all the crap they are just the idea of appling scientific method for all human affairs (and embracing technology, and a new economic system that is sustainable), if you think there is no plan to apply this, then you could step in help ....or stick with the establishment (dont like that so-american word but it doest the job)

no hard feelings, but i wont be wasting my latin here anymore. Might keep reading the forum but avoid this topic, would most probably only make me feel like getting back to discussion

ps: sorry if my english sucked today, just pulled a double-shift at work but i saw this and *rolleyes* had to respond

p.p.s.: i normaly end with a doc or something to talk about, but i didnt though of one, but this precise minute this video came out eheh. It's not offtopic, im posting it in my position against this food annavailability because of our economic system, and technology proving we could feed the pop of years to come if that was a priority. hope you enjoy
[youtube]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HDQ7XIOIAfY&hl=pt-br&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HDQ7XIOIAfY&hl=pt-br&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/youtube]
Last edited by Belphegor on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:44 pm
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Belphegor wrote:You didn't saw my documents did you? Your evidences are joking and badmouthing (as distorting) what i said. I hoped we would be discussing the stuff i presented other than what i simply wrote. We aren't, you jump in gang style considering the subject debunked and that makes it so.

I'm very disappointed, and i feel i've been mislead by the forums name, league of reason is just the name, it's more like league of joe, who doesn't need to present any substance, badmouthing is enough, and can refer back to a previous topic as debunked and when i go back his debunking is him saying stuff with no backings (with usual references to idiots and stupids to all who disagree with his view). That is really not the way im used to discussing stuff.

I hoped to be discussing the documents i linked, but i bet nobody even bothered to check them out (and no they have nothing to do with zeitgeist or its authors) they are documentaries about economic from relatively famous sources. I was making my case the the world is near a turning point, it's a fact, not just wild guess, we reached peak oil, the climate crisis, technological unemployment (do you even know what this is? or how it seems unavoidable?). If you don't care about these, for me main issue, and just care about twin towers, my bad, wrong forum for me.

I fail to see your logic when accusing me of acting like a christian, like if i've presented my case as a dogma... when i'm presenting stuff to debate, but am being badmouthed and the evidence is "use teh google" ok.

like i said i came to the forum out of advice and i'm a fan of AndromedasWake work on youtube, and was enjoying just reading though the forum (had no idea of intention to write stuff, was just going to read like i normally do), i would never enter 2 sections though, not of interest to me, and those wold be pseudoscience and conspiracy theories (yes i know many ppl put zeitgeist there, and I do try to get away from the conspiracy related subjects of the movement, non-americans don't care much for them, neither does the very author these days). i had this dumb idea of searching the forum for zeitgeist and found it. the disappointment began when i saw the sort of topics the the same category.... ok

the next years will be very different from the years recently passed, and ppl may someday call it a different name, but the ideas of the venus project will be gradually put to practice. Cutting all the crap they are just the idea of appling scientific method for all human affairs (and embracing technology, and a new economic system that is sustainable), if you think there is no plan to apply this, then you could step in help ....or stick with the establishment (dont like that so-american word but it doest the job)

no hard feelings, but i wont be wasting my latin here anymore. Might keep reading the forum but avoid this topic, would most probably only make me feel like getting back to discussion

ps: sorry if my english sucked today, just pulled a double-shift at work but i saw this and *rolleyes* had to respond

See you in 4-5 days under a different screen name... :facepalm:

But yes, feel free to leave this thread, and the entire site, if you feel incapable of reading what people say and responding to it. The fact that you chose to stomp your feet and whine instead of addressing people shows that you are ill-suited for any sort of adult discussion.
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:55 pm
Raistlin MajerePosts: 228Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

ImprobableJoe wrote:You did the video embedding wrong. :lol:


I see that :lol: I fixed it now though :P

Belphegor, the fact that we KNOW you didn't read any of the other threads is the reason why we dismiss you. If you had read the other threads, you wouldn't be spouting the garbage you are now. It's all been gone over before, multiple times. We're not going to repeat it all for you.
Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:11 pm
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Raistlin Majere wrote:Belphegor, the fact that we KNOW you didn't read any of the other threads is the reason why we dismiss you. If you had read the other threads, you wouldn't be spouting the garbage you are now. It's all been gone over before, multiple times. We're not going to repeat it all for you.

Well, a certain type of person believes that posting links is a form of making an argument, and ignoring every criticism is another. They lie about people who disagree with them, when they say that we're only insulting them, and that we haven't read anything and we just don't understand.
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:21 pm
Raistlin MajerePosts: 228Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:58 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

ImprobableJoe wrote:Well, a certain type of person believes that posting links is a form of making an argument, and ignoring every criticism is another. They lie about people who disagree with them, when they say that we're only insulting them, and that we haven't read anything and we just don't understand.


Seems to happen a lot, doesn't it?
Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:43 pm
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Raistlin Majere wrote:Seems to happen a lot, doesn't it?

Only on certain subjects, really... the conspiracy stuff. On the purely religious, scientific, and political stuff there are disagreements, and people absent themselves when things get heated, but there's very rarely this sort of whining "you guys just don't understand!" nonsense anywhere else.
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:55 pm
IBSpifyUser avatarPosts: 463Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:06 am Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Zeitgeist

the conspiricy stuff, and occasion on some of the hot button political stuff like death penalty and abortion (still has flashes about having to explain at least 20 times that the death penalty costs more then life in prison)
Contrary to popular belief, full-immersion holographic sex will not destroy society.

Full-immersion holographic sex achievement points will destroy society
Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:03 pm
BrunksUser avatarPosts: 51Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:01 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

ImprobableJoe wrote:Also, I wonder how many hours it will be before another "new" member with less than 10 posts joins the thread and pretends that the discussion we're having right now never really happened at all?


I honestly don't know where you guys get the energy to deal with them >.>

kudos.
Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:50 am
ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Brunks wrote:
I honestly don't know where you guys get the energy to deal with them >.>

Red Bull.
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:46 pm
Kevin R BrownPosts: 69Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:51 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

...The thing that made me the most angry about this 'documentary' is it's vilification of Roosevelt. Yes, the former U.S. President felt that the threat posed by Imperial Japan and Fascist Germany was a danger to global civilization, and pursued an aggressive neutral posture in favor of the allied forces... and the movie wants to have me believe that this was a bad thing?

What was FDR to do, then? Sit back and await for the capitulation of Europe to the Third Reich (...which would then have subsequently collapsed under it's leadership's lunacy, throwing Europe into a state of poverty and further turmoil)? Wait until Barbarossa's probable crumbling, and watch the Soviet Union wrap it's talons around most of the eastern hemisphere?

Roosevelt was by no means a perfect man, but he was well principled, and we're all much better for it. He essentially stressed / worked himself to death, literally, during the course of the war - something that 'Team Zeitgeist' didn't see fit to mention.


And what is this nonsense about a 'special additive' that was sold to Germany by American petroleum interests in order for Goring's Luftwaffe to remain airborne? The Bf 109 did not require some ambiguous, magical 'additive' (and nor did any aircraft of the period); it's engine, the Junkers Jumo 210, used high octane aviation fuel (if memory serves, fuel with an octane rating of 87) - and Germany had plenty of it after it's bloodless capture of so much territory preceding the invasion of Poland.

If it were true that the allies were fueling and supplying 'both sides' of the war, it's rather curious that the Nazis dedicated the resources they did to sinking allied cargo ships with U-Boats in order to disrupt the supply chain. Or is that part of the conspiracy as well? Perhaps the allies were using radio-controlled dummy cargo ships, which they then allowed the Nazis who were in on the plot to sink. :facepalm:
Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:54 am
ilikeostUser avatarPosts: 58Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:07 amLocation: Sweden

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Hey guys! Do you know what I like? Apples! Or no wait! I like pizza! ... Or... No... Apples! No... Pizza! No no no!!! Pizza... Apples... Pizzaapples! Yes, pizzaapples... I. FUCKING. LIKE. THEM!





No...
Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:01 pm
Agn0st!CPosts: 7Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:43 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Kevin R Brown wrote:...The thing that made me the most angry about this 'documentary' is it's vilification of Roosevelt. Yes, the former U.S. President felt that the threat posed by Imperial Japan and Fascist Germany was a danger to global civilization, and pursued an aggressive neutral posture in favor of the allied forces... and the movie wants to have me believe that this was a bad thing?


It was a good thing, but the motive was bad, and the motive was profit.

Kevin R Brown wrote:What was FDR to do, then? Sit back and await for the capitulation of Europe to the Third Reich (...which would then have subsequently collapsed under it's leadership's lunacy, throwing Europe into a state of poverty and further turmoil)? Wait until Barbarossa's probable crumbling, and watch the Soviet Union wrap it's talons around most of the eastern hemisphere?


Why did he wait in the first place? Why didn't he declared war immediately if he was so self-righteousness?

Kevin R Brown wrote:Roosevelt was by no means a perfect man, but he was well principled, and we're all much better for it. He essentially stressed / worked himself to death, literally, during the course of the war - something that 'Team Zeitgeist' didn't see fit to mention.


Most of the people don't stressed them self to death even because of their children, and you want me to believe that he stressed / worked himself for what? Global peace? :lol:
Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:26 pm
Kevin R BrownPosts: 69Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:51 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

It was a good thing, but the motive was bad, and the motive was profit.


No, the motive was not profit. Roosevelt did not 'profit' from the war at all - it fucking killed him.

The entire U.S. economy was in the tank when the war broke out. The idea that FDR thought he could might a quick buck by going over to Normandy is ridiculous; if he wanted money, he'd have been better off robbing the public through his clout in wall street.

Do you have any evidence of his alleged villainy? His plot to cash-in on the war in europe?

Why did he wait in the first place? Why didn't he declared war immediately if he was so self-righteousness?


The U.S. economy was broken when the second world war broke out. I would agree that they did not respond as rapidly as they should have, in hindsight, but that's a fault that nearly every allied nation shared. The world had just left a global conflict - people were not eager for more bloodshed.

For his part, FDR recognized the dangers overseas and attempted to apply soft pressure with economic sanctions to Axis powers like Japan (an act that the film admonishes). The attack on Pearl Harbor shocked the consciousness of the American public, and shattered the real zeitgeist that the war was simply a 'European affair' that they could avoid.

FDR was not perfect, and not a saint - but 'll be damned if I can't call him a hero, in the same way that Churchill was a hero.

Most of the people don't stressed them self to death even because of their children, and you want me to believe that he stressed / worked himself for what? Global peace?


You can believe whatever the fuck you want to believe, you greasy fucking slime ball. Roosevelt was paralyzed from the waist down, but refused to use a wheelchair in public, partly because he felt it was important to convey strong & positive imagery, partly because he refused to accept that he was a victim of an illness.

Between a lack of sleep, physical stress from forcing himself to stand upright on a regular basis, an addiction to tobacco and the turmoil of being president at a time of war (making emotionally difficult decisions, making public appearances, travelling abroad, etc), he was dead of cerebral hemorrhage at the age of 63, a month before the surrender of Germany.

No doubt it makes you feel so much better about yourself to think of a president like FDR as some towering megalomaniac who had the planet at the end of his puppet strings, but that's just some self-indulgent delusion. The reality is that Roosevelt was just another human being, flawed as any of us, who saw it fit to confront the demons that had been stirred by others. The price for doing so was his life, and he seemed content to pay it.

We should rue his sudden death, if anything. Physicists working on the manhatten project, like Leà³ Szilà¡rd, knew Roosevelt - and likely could've convinced him of a demonstration to Japan other than destroying Hiroshima and Nagasaki with atomic weapons to force the Empire's capitulation.

So it goes.
Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:34 am
Agn0st!CPosts: 7Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:43 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Kevin R Brown wrote:No, the motive was not profit. Roosevelt did not 'profit' from the war at all - it fucking killed him.


I didn't say that HE made profit, a was talking about USA. And if you think that presidents are making decisions in USA, I must say I'm not very sure that you have an IQ over 80.

Kevin R Brown wrote:FDR was not perfect, and not a saint - but 'll be damned if I can't call him a hero, in the same way that Churchill was a hero.


If you think that politicians are heroes, then get your head examined. There is no such thing as a good politician.

Kevin R Brown wrote:You can believe whatever the fuck you want to believe, you greasy fucking slime ball.


Nice one. how old are you? 12? I hope so.
Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:35 pm
DrunkCatUser avatarPosts: 180Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:01 am

Post Re: Zeitgeist

Agn0st!C wrote:Nice one. how old are you? 12? I hope so.


Why? So the playing field is equal? I've never seen such an audacious example of ad hominem than that post.
Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:44 pm
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