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Anti-vax

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Anti-vax

In general, are you anti-vax or pro-vax?
Anti-vax  4%  [ 6 ]
Pro-vax  96%  [ 152 ]
Total votes : 158
Anti-vax
Author Message
scalyblueUser avatarPosts: 1417Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:02 am

Post Re: Anti-vax

Wow, you really are an idiot.
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Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:19 am
ExeFBMUser avatarPosts: 169Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:39 pm

Post Re: Anti-vax

Niocan wrote:I also have a very good idea of how FLU VACCINE is produced, it's effects, and the plethora of misinformation about it; While using my own body to test the claims so I can see with my own eyes and prove it to myself that it does indeed work as claimed. The best part, is that you don't need to rely on bold claims made by producers if you can test it for yourself on whatever it takes to prove it to yourself.

It's self-empowering, is what I'm trying to get at >.>


Modified to highlight inconsistencies.
Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:22 am
IrBubblePosts: 246Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:38 am

Post Re: Anti-vax

Actually, the swineflu vaccine is a conspiracy to make people work out less, leading to an obesity pandemic (WATCH OUT AFRICA... sorry, I do realize that I am a horrible human for that joke) which leads people to use collodial silver because it's way healthy. And I have very convincing evidence! I took the vaccine, and I had a fever for a whole night and a sore shoulder for three days! QED!!!

Also, this site ( viewforum.php?f=48) shows a clear connection between the two, as both topics are on the same page being dismissed by the same people! These people are clearly the conspirators, the NWO, something they also dismiss, proving beyond a doubt that they ARE the new world order. Also, there is a discussion on this board about who the new world order is, proving that there has been two previous world orders, and that the one before this one still considers itself the NEW world order, thus the conflict.

Also, the presidents of the US are reptilians.

Edit: Pardon the link, I tried to make it look better but the HTML editor didn't want me to succeed (I guess I doesn't like recursive linking).
Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:01 am
GiliellUser avatarPosts: 1218Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:29 am Gender: Female

Post Re: Anti-vax

Niocan wrote:It isn't a backdoor, I was simply taking into consideration the placebo effect, the health of the individual, etc. I dislike dealing in absolutes very often, and it isn't constructive to do so.



The placebo effect?
Has anybody ever observed a placebo effect that makes you not die from a poison because you actually believe it is good for you?

Oh, wait, Niocan's trying to demonstrate that very thing...
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Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:51 pm
MaddysinbreeNew MemberPosts: 1Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:38 am Gender: Female

Post Re: Anti-vax

As a nurse, a naturopath, a nutritionist and a research scientist I agree with most of the comments made by Jim Carey in his article. If you study the history of disease, the pharmaceutical companies take a lot of credit for stopping the spread of disease through vaccinations that is unwarranted. I have 3 science degrees that I have undertaken since one of my sons suffered meningitis post his MMR vaccine and was left with a permanent disability. My older son who is fully vaccinated has still had every childhood diseases and my youngest has had none and wasn't vaccinated (as I wanted to study it first). Pharmaceutical companies put profits first and unfortunately accumulated effects of vaccines are not studied. The side effects of vaccines is down played and less than 1% of children that have side effects are documented. Up to a third of vaccinated children still get the diseases that they are vaccinated against (and NOT milder cases)
Stimulate your child's immune system naturally though breast feeding and increased nutrition, and ask the legislators to push for more unbiased research!

I know that I will get a lot of flack from this post. There are a lot of people that will say it is rubbish and that I am doing damage by being anti vaccine,,,, but I am sorry.... People need to do significant research (not just through the published pharmaceutical research on PubMed) and look into what they are giving their children and then be free to make up their own minds.........................
Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:59 am
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: Anti-vax

Damn right you'll catch a lot of flack for this, at least from me you will.

First off, two things: I don't necessarily buy that you're any kind of researcher, but that doesn't really phase me.
Second, I've written a blog post on the subject over a year ago. It might be very slightly out of date, but I'm fairly sure it's still mostly up to standards.

If you study the history of disease, the pharmaceutical companies take a lot of credit for stopping the spread of disease through vaccinations that is unwarranted.


Really? I would agree if you had said "pharmaceutical companies often take a lot of false credit" or "pharmaceutical companies can't, as a rule, be trusted", but vaccinations are actually one of the few areas where this sort of criticism is almost completely unwarranted.
Could you give any source at all that supports your statement?

(...) one of my sons suffered meningitis post his MMR vaccine and was left with a permanent disability.


Sadly, side effects do happen. However, science advances and better vaccinations are found.
I don't know where you live, but my guess would be that you live in either the UK or US and that your son was vaccinated in the early 1990s, would I be correct? If I am, do you know which strain of mumps-vaccination your son received? If it was in the early 1990s or before, it's highly likely he was vaccinated with the Urabe mumps strain, which indeed has a lot of side effects. Better research was conducted and today, at least in Western countries, vaccination is conducted almost universally with the Jeryl Lynn strain. Not only is that strain generally safer, effectiveness goes up from 73% (Urabe strain) to 83-88% (Jeryl Lynn strain). Cochrane review of MMR vaccine (2012)

I absolutely agree that we should conduct better research on not only all vaccines, but all medicine in general. I'm absolutely for the notion that medical companies should not control research and be able to fake results for their own profit. However, you're chucking out the baby with the bath water by dismissing obviously helpful medicine.
Indeed, the Cochrane collaboration remarks: "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate. The evidence of adverse events following immunisation with the MMR vaccine cannot be separated from its role in preventing the target diseases."
So while the vaccine does prevent the target diseases, the vaccination itself has many side effects. Regrettable, yes. Preventable, yes. But a reason to not get vaccinated?

I myself was vaccinated as a baby and, because the more expensive but safer vaccination was not available, I was given a less expensive and very unsafe vaccination. (Now that I think about it, it might have been the Urabe-strain, I'll have to ask my Mom...) I suffered some rather unpleasant adverse effects, but was nursed back to health my modern medicine. Do I reject the evidence in favour of vaccinations simply because of my negative experience? Do I become irrational and a fear-monger? No, I appraise the evidence and go with it.

My older son who is fully vaccinated has still had every childhood diseases and my youngest has had none and wasn't vaccinated (as I wanted to study it first).


And yet, children with the vaccination have an 83%+ chance of not contracting the disease. Why is that if they're ineffective? The evidence is enormous: Before the rubella vaccination was introduced, the US had an average of 30,000 cases and 1% of pregnancies were affected by congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) during the 1964-65 US epidemic, leading to roughly 20,000 miscarriages and disabled babies. In 1969, a live attenuated virus vaccine was licensed (see my blog post) and today we have less than 4 cases in the US.
My guess is that your older son has a weak immune system to begin with, while your younger one was protected by herd immunity. It's possible, but of course I can't know that.

Pharmaceutical companies put profits first and unfortunately accumulated effects of vaccines are not studied.


Yes to the first, absolute NO to the second. Every single health organisation, independent or not, is in strong support of vaccinations. That's not because they dick around all day and are paid by the powerful pharmaceutical companies, but rather because they've appraised the evidence and found it to be robust enough to warrant the support. That's not to say that there aren't problems with individual strains or that there isn't better research to be had or even that the research methodology is particularly good. The Cochrane collaboration, arguably the least biased and best source for medicine out there, concludes every single time that more and better research on these particular topics is required, but the also agree that vaccinations are definitely effective!

The side effects of vaccines is down played and less than 1% of children that have side effects are documented.


Source?

Up to a third of vaccinated children still get the diseases that they are vaccinated against (and NOT milder cases)


Source?
The lowest figure I could find wasn't 33% (or 1/3rd) but rather 27% (or close to 1/4th), but that was 20 odd years ago. Modern effectiveness is often over 80%, so the number of children getting the disease even though they were vaccinated was about 17% and less. Indeed, the most recent strains seem to have an effectiveness of 95%, but that comes from an unverified source so take that last figure with a pinch of salt.

The NHS site is more trustworthy and very interesting to read:
Q: Will I have to pay for the MMR vaccination?
A: No, MMR vaccination is available to adults and children free on the NHS.

So much for pharmaceutical companies making a huge profit off of people. Additionally, MMR vaccinations aren't protected by patent any more, so a country can produce them at immensely low costs.

Q: Can you still get measles after the MMR vaccination?
A: It’s extremely unlikely, but you need two doses of MMR to be fully protected. The first dose of the MMR jab protects 90% of those who receive it, and the second dose tops this up to 99% protection. Almost all of the children in the Welsh outbreak who caught measles were either completely unvaccinated or only partially vaccinated.

So 90-99% protection according to the NHS, which I would view as largely trustworthy. Interesting part about the "Welsh outbreak" too, don't you think?

A further excellent provider of information is the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) with its Measles Vaccination site as well as the statistics and surveys page. Among the literally hundreds of articles, tables and so on, we find this independent report. Here, we find the following quotes:

the incidence has remained less than 1/ million population continuously since 1997
and
The majority of the measles cases (2001-2011) were unvaccinated (65%) or had unknown vaccination status (20%). A majority (88%) of the cases represented importations or import-associated infections.
and
Incidence of rubella was less than 1 per 10 million and incidence of CRS was less than 1 per 5 million births.

Compare that last figure (1/10 million or roughly 320 cases) to the 30,000 or so cases before that!

I'll continue:
Rubella and CRS elimination was documented and verified in the United States in 2004.
and finally
The level of vaccine reluctance and refusal is of concern. If it continues to rise, it will pose a threat to sustainability of measles and rubella/CRS elimination. Both public and private sectors need to be engaged to reduce the level of vaccine refusals both domestically and globally.

By the results of this independent report, you're actively encouraging people to not have a vaccination for a preventable disease. I've already given my own thoughts on that subject and would therefore claim that you're promoting death and suffering.

Stimulate your child's immune system naturally though breast feeding and increased nutrition, and ask the legislators to push for more unbiased research!


Yes, absolutely. But also vaccinate your children!
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:19 am
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2950Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Not sure we'll get any meaningful data by polling this website, but for the record I'm pro-vax
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Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:11 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2943Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Greetings,

Me too.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:34 am
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1177Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Anti-vax

I don't know man, I'm feeling pretty misanthropic today.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:52 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2943Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Greetings,

Maddysinbree wrote:As a nurse, a naturopath, a nutritionist and a research scientist I agree with most of the comments made by Jim Carey in his article. If you study the history of disease, the pharmaceutical companies take a lot of credit for stopping the spread of disease through vaccinations that is unwarranted. I have 3 science degrees that I have undertaken since one of my sons suffered meningitis post his MMR vaccine and was left with a permanent disability. My older son who is fully vaccinated has still had every childhood diseases and my youngest has had none and wasn't vaccinated (as I wanted to study it first). Pharmaceutical companies put profits first and unfortunately accumulated effects of vaccines are not studied. The side effects of vaccines is down played and less than 1% of children that have side effects are documented. Up to a third of vaccinated children still get the diseases that they are vaccinated against (and NOT milder cases)
Stimulate your child's immune system naturally though breast feeding and increased nutrition, and ask the legislators to push for more unbiased research!

I know that I will get a lot of flack from this post. There are a lot of people that will say it is rubbish and that I am doing damage by being anti vaccine,,,, but I am sorry.... People need to do significant research (not just through the published pharmaceutical research on PubMed) and look into what they are giving their children and then be free to make up their own minds.........................

You might like to read On Immunity.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:05 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2943Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:32 am
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1177Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Anti-vax

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

Another study finds no link between vaccine, autism

Kindest regards,

James


How many studies does it take to convince an anti-vaxer?

Starts like a joke but it rally is sad, very sad.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:30 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2943Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Greetings,

WarK wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

Another study finds no link between vaccine, autism

Kindest regards,

James


How many studies does it take to convince an anti-vaxer?

Starts like a joke but it rally is sad, very sad.

The more, the better.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2943Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:50 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2943Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Anti-vax

Greetings,

Most People Who Try To Persuade Anti-Vaxxers Fail. But Scientists Just Discovered A Better Way:

Scientific evidence doesn’t sway them. Neither do doctors or [url]government officials[/url]. And vilifying them often backfires. So if you know a parent who’s skeptical about the safety of vaccines, how can you actually convince them to change their mind?
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/ ... ire-effect
Emphasizing how scary it can be when children come down with a preventable disease may be the best way to help anti-vaccine people understand the real risks of their stance, according to new research published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:00 pm
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