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Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

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Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.
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Doc.User avatarPosts: 642Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:14 pm

Post Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

First off, this is just me mostly ranting and bitching, so if you think you have something better to do, by all means go ahead.

Now that we have that out of the way, as the titles indicates I want to talk just a bit about horoscopes, which I have to grown to have even more lately. Don't how is it where you are from, but here it's pretty much everywhere, facbook is flowing with this crap, people sharing their ridiculous photoes and deep psychological analysis, and this thing has opinion about everything doesn't it? Friendship, career, even SEX. people (and particularly Lions, and my girlfriend happens to be one of those) find some immense pride in having the positive characteristics that their particular horoscope offers, and justify the flaws the same way as well. It's almost funny how if a horoscope says that you are an egoist, your egoism is not only forgiven, but somewhat idealized. Egoism is NOT a positive trait, and it's one of the worst traits you can have in a relationship so there is absolutely nothing to be proud of. Yeah, sorry. Now you read some of this, and you may think "well some of this stuff does really match", but really, does it? I was on a date once, it was a first date and this girl, after hearing that I'm a Capricorn starts a long monologue, telling me who I am. in the end I said: yeah that's impressive, now reverse almost everything you've said and you'll get me. It's almost like a religion, with people who are really into it being priests and all you can do is sit back and shoot phrases like "well I know a guy that..." "that's not entirely true..."

Now, with all that said, I looked up few zodac thingys, there are a few people that I know absolutely perfectly, all the nuances included.

First there's Capricorn, that's me. and admittedly, even with my skepticism, most of the things did match, almost all of them in fact.

Second there's my cousin and my sister. Their signs also matched.

and a lion, my girlfriend and one friend. This also, sort of matched, but not all of it. about 75% I'd say.


Now what I am asking for here is basically a bunch personal anecdotes, so I can finally know if all of this deserves any attention at all. There is perhaps no other group of people that I would entrust with this more than a LOR bunch. Care to share?
Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:39 pm
InfernoContributorUser avatarPosts: 2298Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:36 pmLocation: Vienna, Austria Gender: Cake

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Horoscopes, Zodiac... it's all a bunch of poppycock.

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Do you want an in-depth refutation or will Richard Dawkins's Enemies of Reason suffice?
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed." ― Friedrich Nietzsche

"I shall achieve my objectives through the power... of Science!" --LessWrong
Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:43 pm
Master_Ghost_KnightContributorUser avatarPosts: 2630Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:57 pmLocation: Netherlands Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Doc. wrote:Now what I am asking for here is basically a bunch personal anecdotes, so I can finally know if all of this deserves any attention at all. There is perhaps no other group of people that I would entrust with this more than a LOR bunch. Care to share?

Well since you asked. When my hears precieve the sound of "oh I'm X sign and I have Y characteristics", what I hear is "I'm vain and weak minded, I believe in voodo and have no concept of reality". I could rant about the absurd implications of astrology for a long time, but currently I am not in the mood of doing so. So instead I'm going to briefly touch uppon the subject that 1. The aparent acurracy is actually due to various simple reasons. 2. Astrology is an ego trip.

1. The main reason why the horoscopes appear so accurate is because they are so vague that they could apply to anyone.
Here is an experiment that you can do. Get one of those horoscopes that describe the characteristics of the different signs and what not, then reprint those with all the signs scrambled up. Give it to anyone who believes in horoscopes and see if he/she notices anything wrong.
Another thing that contributes to the appearance of accuracy, is the fact that it very often horoscopes describe mental states. We are aware of our own mental states but we cannot see the thoughts of other people, and therefore it is harder for us to recognize that other people think like we do more than what we believe. People have good days and bad days, they have anxieties about the future, anxieties about work and money, we want to achieve greatness, there are people we love, people we hate, we have dreams and projects, priorities, things we wished to do, things we wished to have done, we have things we couldn't not see ourselves without and there are things we regret, there are ways in which we excel at relating to other people and there are things that makes us embarrassed, we have hopes and fears, qualities and issues. All of that you will have just out of the fact that you are a living human being, and believe me that most everyone else will face the same mental perspectives as you did.
Another fact that contributes to the apparent accuracy is our own mental bias, even if the characteristics are not general enough, we have a selective memory and tend to forget things that are not significant and remember things that are. You remember the hits but not the misses.
Yet another factor, even if the horoscope misses, because the language is vague enough, you still think it still applies to you just because it says it applies to you. For instance if a horoscope says "You tend to worry about your appearance and take attention to it", it could mean that you spend allot of time dressing up, that you are always well dressed. It can also mean that you do not spend allot of time dressing up and you are also poorly dressed, but you are aware of that , you may even worry what other people think about your attire sometimes but in practice you don't do much about it. It could also be that it doesn't apply in any context, but the person still thinks that it does, it just hasn't had the opportunity manifest in them. Even if it doesn't apply to them, and they are aware that it doesn't apply to them, because of the usage of the words "tend to" they just think "well it is an overall characteristic of X sign it doesn't say that it applies to every X sign, so that doesn't have to apply to me, but it is still a correct description of the X sign."
The person most responsible for making the horoscope look so accurate is actually the reader instead of the writer.

2. Well so why are people interested in that? Because it claims it says something about them, something about their traits that they wish to know, something about their future. People read their horoscope because it is their horoscope. Because it talks to them about them.
"I have an irrefutable argument for the existence of...." NO, STOP! You are already wrong!
Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:49 pm
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Satan has been at work trying to hide the true meaning of the horoscope signs.The truth is the 12 signs of the zodiac line up with the bible.The bible tells us the heavens declare the glory of God.You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs.Like for instance Virgo - Jesus would be born of a virgin. Leo - Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah,etc the point is that they line up with the bible like Libra - scales - This tells us judgment day is coming and the payment and weight of sin. The fact is they have nothing to do with astrology but are like a picture book in the heavens declaring the glory of God.Archeologists have dug up an ancient jewish temple and on the floor was the 12 signs of the zodiac,they knew the heavens declare the glory of God. Also some of the symbolism in the book of Revelation was based on the star sign Virgo and the serpent in the heavens.

Here is a teaching about it. The truth behind the star signs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLNZ9WjWSU
Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:22 am
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4985Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Satan has been at work trying to hide the true meaning of the horoscope signs.


Yeah, all those pre-Christian, arbitrary collection of connected stars...

The truth is the 12 signs of the zodiac line up with the bible.


As do the pyramids, the teachings of Sun Tsu, and the Skrull invasion of Earth.

The bible tells us the heavens declare the glory of God.


Mainly due to the fact that its composers stole loads from Egyptian mystery schools, as at the time, it was the latest in a long line of made-up bollocks used to maintain a tiered society.

You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs.


Presumably you mean Horus, Isis and Osiris, yeah? You should read the Egyptian Book of the Dead. It starts with a prayer: "Our lord, who art in heaven - hallow'd be thy name..."

Like for instance Virgo - Jesus would be born of a virgin.


Actually, the term for virgin is virgo intacta.

Leo - Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah


Or it could be the Sphynx

etc the point is that they line up with the bible


It's a seriously wonky line.

like Libra - scales - This tells us judgment day is coming and the payment and weight of sin.


:lol:

The fact is they have nothing to do with astrology


I think you mean astronomy; they are fundamental to astrology.

but are like a picture book in the heavens declaring the glory of God.


God can keep his glory in his pants, thank you very much. Bloody perverted deities.

Archeologists have dug up an ancient jewish temple and on the floor was the 12 signs of the zodiac,they knew the heavens declare the glory of God.


Yet they dispute the messianic nature of Jesus.

Also some of the symbolism in the book of Revelation was based on the star sign Virgo and the serpent in the heavens.


No, it's based on local history.

Here is a teaching about it. The truth behind the star signs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLNZ9WjWSU


No thanks. Quite enough gibberish in this thread.
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:12 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2771Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Greetings,

abelcainsbrother wrote:Satan has been at work trying to hide the true meaning of the horoscope signs.The truth is the 12 signs of the zodiac line up with the bible.The bible tells us the heavens declare the glory of God.You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs.Like for instance Virgo - Jesus would be born of a virgin. Leo - Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah,etc the point is that they line up with the bible like Libra - scales - This tells us judgment day is coming and the payment and weight of sin. The fact is they have nothing to do with astrology but are like a picture book in the heavens declaring the glory of God.Archeologists have dug up an ancient jewish temple and on the floor was the 12 signs of the zodiac,they knew the heavens declare the glory of God. Also some of the symbolism in the book of Revelation was based on the star sign Virgo and the serpent in the heavens.

Here is a teaching about it. The truth behind the star signs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLNZ9WjWSU

As in the other threads, abelscainbrother, you appear to have based your own interpretation of things on fringe sources in your attempts to line up everything with the bible after-the-fact.

There are two forms of astrology in our part of the world: Western (based on the seasons with 12 signs from Ptolemy, 90-168 AD) and Eastern (based on sidereal astronomy with 13 signs, including Ophiuchus). [In comparison, Egyptians had 36 "decans" dating from 2100 BC, Hindus had 27/28 sectors dating from ~1000 BC, and the Chinese had 12 dating from 475 BC.]

The Babylonians originally had 13 signs but changed to 12.

The sign of Libra did not exist until the time of Julius Caesar - the Julian calendar - the others having Etruscan origins. Prior to this, there was a single constellation - Scorpius - whose claws were divided off of it and named Libra (a Roman astrologer, Manilius, used the terms Libra and Chelae (claws) interchangeably}.

The mosaic floor to which you refer is that of Beit (Beth) Alpha, a 6th century synagogue, which - it is argued - represents a merging of traditional Judaic and Greco-Roman cultures: ie, a non-Rabbinic tradition.

Your claim that "You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs." is wrong.

Astrology had nothing to do with the forebears of the Israelites, whose oral tradition was written-down later to become the OT. "Sooth-saying", and any attempt to foretell the future, was frowned upon as it seemed you were attempting to second-guess Yahweh: in other words, behaving according to how you feared Yahweh would react rather than simply abiding by the Covenant. Following their sojourns in Babylon and Egypt, along with their interaction with Greek and Roman cultures, astrology - and other forms of "sooth-saying" - permeated Judaism, as one can see from the Beit Alpha mosaic.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:21 am
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

abelcainsbrother wrote:Satan has been at work trying to hide the true meaning of the horoscope signs.The truth is the 12 signs of the zodiac line up with the bible.The bible tells us the heavens declare the glory of God.You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs.Like for instance Virgo - Jesus would be born of a virgin. Leo - Jesus is the lion of the tribe of Judah,etc the point is that they line up with the bible like Libra - scales - This tells us judgment day is coming and the payment and weight of sin. The fact is they have nothing to do with astrology but are like a picture book in the heavens declaring the glory of God.Archeologists have dug up an ancient jewish temple and on the floor was the 12 signs of the zodiac,they knew the heavens declare the glory of God. Also some of the symbolism in the book of Revelation was based on the star sign Virgo and the serpent in the heavens.

Here is a teaching about it. The truth behind the star signs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLNZ9WjWSU



As in the other threads, abelscainbrother, you appear to have based your own interpretation of things on fringe sources in your attempts to line up everything with the bible after-the-fact.


There is a lot of biblical evidence people overlook.These signs in the OT represent the 12 tribes of Israel but they also line up with the new testament too and are prophetic too.They don't line up with any other religion either.




There are two forms of astrology in our part of the world: Western (based on the seasons with 12 signs from Ptolemy, 90-168 AD) and Eastern (based on sidereal astronomy with 13 signs, including Ophiuchus). [In comparison, Egyptians had 36 "decans" dating from 2100 BC, Hindus had 27/28 sectors dating from ~1000 BC, and the Chinese had 12 dating from 475 BC.]


The Egyptian god's died out and the Chinese ones are based on these 12,they just changed the names.



The Babylonians originally had 13 signs but changed to 12.


They included the serpent.


The sign of Libra did not exist until the time of Julius Caesar - the Julian calendar - the others having Etruscan origins. Prior to this, there was a single constellation - Scorpius - whose claws were divided off of it and named Libra (a Roman astrologer, Manilius, used the terms Libra and Chelae (claws) interchangeably}.



All 12 existed for the Hebrew people.Also Scorpio represents Satan's kingdom against God's kingdom- Jesus said I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy.Libra is scales of justice. Cancer represents the church- The bible in Ephesians tells us to put on the whole armor of God and crabs walk sideways,Gemeni-the twins- God loves us all and is no respector of persons but some have the joy of the Lord and some don't,etc on and on,they line up with the bible.


The mosaic floor to which you refer is that of Beit (Beth) Alpha, a 6th century synagogue, which - it is argued - represents a merging of traditional Judaic and Greco-Roman cultures: ie, a non-Rabbinic tradition.


It is evidence for 12 of them and the jews had them named because they represent the 12 tribes of Israel.

Your claim that "You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs." is wrong.


They were.


Astrology had nothing to do with the forebears of the Israelites, whose oral tradition was written-down later to become the OT. "Sooth-saying", and any attempt to foretell the future, was frowned upon as it seemed you were attempting to second-guess Yahweh: in other words, behaving according to how you feared Yahweh would react rather than simply abiding by the Covenant. Following their sojourns in Babylon and Egypt, along with their interaction with Greek and Roman cultures, astrology - and other forms of "sooth-saying" - permeated Judaism, as one can see from the Beit Alpha mosaic.


They have nothing to do with astrology the jews were not into astrology,they knew these signs declare the glory of God,they represent the 12 tribes of Israel.Is it coincidence that they line up with the bible?And yet jews reject Jesus and yet we see these signs pointing to Jesus,so you can't say the jews just made it up.There is a reason they line up with the bible and it is because they were how men knew the will of God before there was a written bible.The jews believe God taught Adam about this and it was passed down until there was a written bible,the religious jews have never forgot about them.


Kindest regards,

James
Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:35 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2771Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Greetings,

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

As in the other threads, abelscainbrother, you appear to have based your own interpretation of things on fringe sources in your attempts to line up everything with the bible after-the-fact.

There is a lot of biblical evidence people overlook.These signs in the OT represent the 12 tribes of Israel but they also line up with the new testament too and are prophetic too.They don't line up with any other religion either.

That is simply not the case!

Mesopotamian, Babylonian and Egyptian religions all either pre-date or, later, are synchronous with the developing religious cults of the people who later became known as Israelites. The so-called "biblical references" are due to interactions with these cultural religious practices.

The word "zodiac" is Greek, and was later used in the amalgamation of Jewish and Greco-Roman cultures of the time.

The association of the signs of the zodiac with the "twelve tribes of Israel" is a later one from New-Age occult practices.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:There are two forms of astrology in our part of the world: Western (based on the seasons with 12 signs from Ptolemy, 90-168 AD) and Eastern (based on sidereal astronomy with 13 signs, including Ophiuchus). [In comparison, Egyptians had 36 "decans" dating from 2100 BC, Hindus had 27/28 sectors dating from ~1000 BC, and the Chinese had 12 dating from 475 BC.]

The Egyptian god's died out and the Chinese ones are based on these 12,they just changed the names.

Utter nonsense!

If you look at the constellations from the perspective of various world cultures, you'll see that there's no comparison between how they drew the lines for constellations.

I suggest you download Stellarium, a free astronomy program, which allows you to view the constellations from the perspective of different cultures.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:The Babylonians originally had 13 signs but changed to 12.

They included the serpent.

As was implied in my earlier paragraph.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:The sign of Libra did not exist until the time of Julius Caesar - the Julian calendar - the others having Etruscan origins. Prior to this, there was a single constellation - Scorpius - whose claws were divided off of it and named Libra (a Roman astrologer, Manilius, used the terms Libra and Chelae (claws) interchangeably}.

All 12 existed for the Hebrew people.

Due to their interaction with earlier and contemporary cultures.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Also Scorpio represents Satan's kingdom against God's kingdom- Jesus said I give you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy.Libra is scales of justice. Cancer represents the church- The bible in Ephesians tells us to put on the whole armor of God and crabs walk sideways,Gemeni-the twins- God loves us all and is no respector of persons but some have the joy of the Lord and some don't,etc on and on,they line up with the bible.

Again, you are applying later associations and interpretations to the bible - more post hoc/confirmation bias fallacies.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:The mosaic floor to which you refer is that of Beit (Beth) Alpha, a 6th century synagogue, which - it is argued - represents a merging of traditional Judaic and Greco-Roman cultures: ie, a non-Rabbinic tradition.

It is evidence for 12 of them and the jews had them named because they represent the 12 tribes of Israel.

Again, this is a later association adopted from other cultural practices.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:Your claim that "You see before there was even a written bible for man to read they knew the will of God by these star signs." is wrong.

They were.

Dragan Glas wrote:Astrology had nothing to do with the forebears of the Israelites, whose oral tradition was written-down later to become the OT. "Sooth-saying", and any attempt to foretell the future, was frowned upon as it seemed you were attempting to second-guess Yahweh: in other words, behaving according to how you feared Yahweh would react rather than simply abiding by the Covenant. Following their sojourns in Babylon and Egypt, along with their interaction with Greek and Roman cultures, astrology - and other forms of "sooth-saying" - permeated Judaism, as one can see from the Beit Alpha mosaic.

They have nothing to do with astrology the jews were not into astrology,they knew these signs declare the glory of God,they represent the 12 tribes of Israel.Is it coincidence that they line up with the bible?And yet jews reject Jesus and yet we see these signs pointing to Jesus,so you can't say the jews just made it up.There is a reason they line up with the bible and it is because they were how men knew the will of God before there was a written bible.The jews believe God taught Adam about this and it was passed down until there was a written bible,the religious jews have never forgot about them.

They don't represent the twelve tribes of Israel - that's a later association. It is simply an association between the twelve tribes and what later became the twelve signs of the zodiac, which was not settled until the 2nd century AD. Note that the synagogue dates from the 6th century AD.

The idea that the signs refer to Jesus is - yet again - a later association, applied after the fact to him.

If the Jews believed Adam was taught astrology, why did they reject sooth-saying? Bearing in mind that "the jews [sic] were not into astrology". The constellations which appear in the Greco-Roman culture were not the same as those in the desert - this is why the Jews didn't have twelve signs of the zodiac!

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:11 pm
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

[quote="Dragan Glas"]Greetings,



Yeah it is all just coincidence that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel and point to Jesus.It is coincidence that Christians can even make them fit,let a hindu,muslim,etc try it.Also no matter the culture these signs have not changed,regardless of the culture,Virgo means virgin,whether the muslims,Chinese,Hindu's,etc it does not matter. Virgo is a virgin in all cultures with a child in her lap also.
Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:55 am
Master_Ghost_KnightContributorUser avatarPosts: 2630Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:57 pmLocation: Netherlands Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

abelcainsbrother wrote:Yeah it is all just coincidence that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel and point to Jesus.It is coincidence that Christians can even make them fit,let a hindu,muslim,etc try it.Also no matter the culture these signs have not changed,regardless of the culture,Virgo means virgin,whether the muslims,Chinese,Hindu's,etc it does not matter. Virgo is a virgin in all cultures with a child in her lap also.

This is what I heard, "I'm extremely deluded and ignorant of other cultures, how people draw pictures in the sky in a cosmic version of the cloud game, and ignorant of reality in general,... look at me I live in Jesus Land." You do know that starts are giant balls of gas going trough nuclear fusion, and the vast majority of what we see with the naked eye is but a small portion of our corner of the milkyway? Right?

And what was that about the chinese zodiac?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_astrology

Yeah, right bullshit!

And since you think that western astrology is about Jesus, then what does Taurus supposed to represent? Gemini? Cancer? Sagittarius? Aquarius?
"I have an irrefutable argument for the existence of...." NO, STOP! You are already wrong!
Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:23 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2771Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Greetigns,

abelcainsbrother wrote:Yeah it is all just coincidence that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel and point to Jesus.

You might as well argue that it's all "coincidence" that they match The Dirty Dozen or the Twelve Monkeys as the twelve tribes - or the twelve disciples or the twelve stations of the cross, etc, etc.

abelcainsbrother wrote:It is coincidence that Christians can even make them fit,let a hindu,muslim,etc try it.Also no matter the culture these signs have not changed,regardless of the culture,Virgo means virgin,whether the muslims,Chinese,Hindu's,etc it does not matter. Virgo is a virgin in all cultures with a child in her lap also.

You are being wilfully blind.

Different cultures had different constellations depending on their mythologies - there are links in this article to various cultures' perspectives: please read them.

All cultures have a representation of the Mother Goddess - Nature itself. It was depicted as a young woman with sheaves of corn, etc, representing bountiful harvests. The important point to note here is that, given it represents Nature, it could be depicted to represent all aspects of Nature. For example, the Egyptians depicted it as a androgyne - with both female breasts and a male phallus. You also had various representations of the Triple Goddess (Maid, Mother, and Crone) - from which we get the Christian idea of the Holy Trinity.

Only in Greco-Roman cosmogony is this represented by Virgo - literally a "young woman".

Virginity had nothing to do with it - it was due to a later misinterpretation that it was turned into "virgin", as we use the term.

The original Hebrew was alma, "young woman", not necessarily a virgin - the Greek equivalent being neanis. However, the translator - having to choose between a young woman or virgin - used the word parthenos, which means a virgin, This then became virgo in Latin, but by then the connotation was that of a virgin (virgo intacta) rather than merely a young woman (virgo). In the subsequent English translations, bearing in mind the concept of Mary being literally a virgin, the word virgo was translated as such.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:32 pm
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2497Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,


Yeah it is all just coincidence that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel and point to Jesus.It is coincidence that Christians can even make them fit,let a hindu,muslim,etc try it.Also no matter the culture these signs have not changed,regardless of the culture,Virgo means virgin,whether the muslims,Chinese,Hindu's,etc it does not matter. Virgo is a virgin in all cultures with a child in her lap also.



Ok, now I'm actually starting to think you're a troll.

If not, you're further out there than is possible to pull back, to be honest.

By linking astrology to religion, you've taken pretty much the epitome of bullshit and combined it with the grand deception of the ages. Most of us here are immensely critical of both concepts, and you will need immense evidence to convince any of us - something you have not come even remotely close to doing so far.

Your interpretations of both the Bible and reality are both tenuous and strenuous. They are very much being applied as highly subjective after-the-fact, and they are only ever applied to support your preconcieved beliefs.

You are suffering furiously from confirmation bias, and you are evidently not here on this forum to actually learn anything new, or have any questions answered.

More evidence, less personal interpretations, please.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
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The horse is a ferocious predator.
Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:14 pm
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

You are just deniers but the fact is we have astrological charts that go back thousands of years,we also have archeological evidence that jews had the signs named and were on the floor like I said.Why would jews have them named?You keep assuming they were into astrology when I tell you that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel,you overlook this and think they were into astrology or were influenced by it,you also overlook the wise men visiting Jesus based on their understanding of these signs,a star guided them and that star was in Virgo too at the time of Jesus's birth.

But yeah it is just coincidence that Virgo is a virgin in the heavens with a child in her lap representing the fact Jesus would be born of a virgin and it is just coincidence that Jesus is the Lion of the TRIBE of Judah-Leo,it is coincidence that Jesus is the water bearer -Aquarius,when Jesus told the woman at the well that if she drinks this water she will thirst again,but if she drinks the water I give she will never thirst again,etc.How could Christians even make them fit if they just made it up after the fact?How could they line up with biblical teaching and fit? No other religion can even come close to making all 12 fit into their religion. It does not matter that other cultures may have made up their constellations like the Egyptians because their god's died out,as nobody believes in them today and know they are false god's who died out long ago.It is coincidence that there is a serpent and a scorpion in the heavens representing Satan's kingdom,it is coincidence that Pisces- is a picture of sunday school and the fish symbol is a Christian symbol,yes it is all just coincidence that thousands of years ago,Pisces was declaring the Christian fish symbol.Try to make them fit into Hinduism,Islam,etc and you'll see they don't.It is coincidence that Cancer-crab- represents the church,it is coincidence that Sagitarrius represents Jesus when he returns,it is coincidence that Libra -scales represent ultimate justice on judgment day by God,it is coincidence that Aries-Ram- represents Jesus because he is much more powerful than a sheep.

It is just coincidence that the bible tells us the heavens declare the glory of God and we look and see these constellations that declare the glory of God by lining up with the bible and not any other religion today.The fact they are seen as horoscope signs today does nothing to change that they line up with the bible and the heavens do declare the glory of God.
Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:00 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2771Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Greetings,

abelcainsbrother wrote:You are just deniers but the fact is we have astrological charts that go back thousands of years,we also have archeological evidence that jews had the signs named and were on the floor like I said.Why would jews have them named?You keep assuming they were into astrology when I tell you that they represent the 12 tribes of Israel,you overlook this and think they were into astrology or were influenced by it,you also overlook the wise men visiting Jesus based on their understanding of these signs,a star guided them and that star was in Virgo too at the time of Jesus's birth.

But yeah it is just coincidence that Virgo is a virgin in the heavens with a child in her lap representing the fact Jesus would be born of a virgin and it is just coincidence that Jesus is the Lion of the TRIBE of Judah-Leo,it is coincidence that Jesus is the water bearer -Aquarius,when Jesus told the woman at the well that if she drinks this water she will thirst again,but if she drinks the water I give she will never thirst again,etc.How could Christians even make them fit if they just made it up after the fact?How could they line up with biblical teaching and fit? No other religion can even come close to making all 12 fit into their religion. It does not matter that other cultures may have made up their constellations like the Egyptians because their god's died out,as nobody believes in them today and know they are false god's who died out long ago.It is coincidence that there is a serpent and a scorpion in the heavens representing Satan's kingdom,it is coincidence that Pisces- is a picture of sunday school and the fish symbol is a Christian symbol,yes it is all just coincidence that thousands of years ago,Pisces was declaring the Christian fish symbol.Try to make them fit into Hinduism,Islam,etc and you'll see they don't.It is coincidence that Cancer-crab- represents the church,it is coincidence that Sagitarrius represents Jesus when he returns,it is coincidence that Libra -scales represent ultimate justice on judgment day by God,it is coincidence that Aries-Ram- represents Jesus because he is much more powerful than a sheep.

It is just coincidence that the bible tells us the heavens declare the glory of God and we look and see these constellations that declare the glory of God by lining up with the bible and not any other religion today.The fact they are seen as horoscope signs today does nothing to change that they line up with the bible and the heavens do declare the glory of God.

You're just not listening.

The tribes of Israel are mentioned in certain books in the bible:

Judges 5:2-31 (The Song Of Deborah) lists 10 tribes - Reuben, Benjamin, Ephraim, Manasseh, Zebulon, Issachar, Dan, Naphtali, Asher, Gilead, to which we should add Levi;

Genesis 49 lists 12 tribes - Reuben, Judah, Levi, Benjamin, Joseph, Zebulun, Issachar, Gad, Dan, Naphtali, Asher and Simeon.

Numbers 2 lists 13 tribes - Reuben, Judah, Levi, Benjamin, Zebulun, Issachar, Gad, Dan, Naphtali, Asher, Simeon, Ephraim and Manasseh.

Deuteronomy 33 lists 11 tribes - Reuben, Judah, Levi, Benjamin, Joseph (with both Ephraim and Manasseh named), Zebulun, Issachar, Gad, Dan, Naphtali, and Asher. Simeon is not listed and, with Ephraim and Manasseh replacing Joseph, would make thirteen tribes.

You keep assuming that the twelve signs are synonymous with the twelve tribes - they were not, it was the months of the year that were representative. [Despite the fact that the Torah only mentions ten, though other books mention twelve.]

The sign Libra did not exist until the Julian calendar - up till then, there were only ten months in the Roman calendar, starting with March and ending with December, comprising 304 days; the winter period of 61 days were unassigned.

The Hebrews used a luni-solar calendar, which means that the Hebrew months don't match the Julian or Gregorian calendars.

As I've already explained, the astrological symbolism was a later development of syncretism with Hellenic culture.

You are simply applying a fringe American Protestant interpretation to the bible, which has nothing to do with the contemporaneous biblical times or contexts.

An example of this is your claim that Pisces is a "picture of sunday [sic] school".

Only in America!

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:36 pm
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:33 am
Darkprophet232User avatarPosts: 226Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:42 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

What is the point of linking to three shitty Christian cover songs? Are you so tired of even pretending to read what others are telling you, you've decided to ignore it completely and just vomit out shitty you tube videos?
“The man who believes that the secrets of the world are forever hidden lives in mystery and fear. Superstition will drag him down." -The Judge
Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:09 am
tarstarkuszPosts: 13Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:44 pm

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Somehow I lost the genetic lottery and became "cancer"!

My very first exposure to horoscopes was at a vending machine in a supermarket when I was about 8 or 9 (or about that) and my parents dragged me to the supermarket with them. So being bored out of my mind, I bummed some change from my dad and went to the vending machines (this was in the 70s and they were the mechanical gumball type machines) to get some candy and I saw a horoscope vending machine. Even at the age of 8 or 9 I found the idea so stupid that I thought it was a joke or something. The idea that you could divide the entire human population into 12 arbitrarily selected groups and then make personal predictions about YOU from a vending machine based on the month you were born seemed to me to be insane.

It's so transparently stupid that I just can't think how anyone, anywhere of any age could be deluded by such an idiotic idea.

They are written so vaguely that it will very often appear that they are describing you properly. I absolutely LOVED James Randi's experiment where everyone thought they got a specialized horoscope for them and rated it is as very good while they all had the very same words on their papers. It was hilarious when Randi got them to pass their "personalized horoscope" to the person behind them.

I later saw the original Cosmos series and Sagan took on the horoscope and it was really sad when he pointed out that virtually every newspaper in the country (US) has an astrology section, but virtually none of them had a regular astronomy section or even a regular science section.

I honestly don't know how stuff like this remains in popular culture.

TT
Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:49 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2497Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

tarstarkusz wrote: [...]
I later saw the original Cosmos series and Sagan took on the horoscope and it was really sad when he pointed out that virtually every newspaper in the country (US) has an astrology section, but virtually none of them had a regular astronomy section or even a regular science section.

I honestly don't know how stuff like this remains in popular culture.

TT



The reason these papers don't have an astronomy/science section is because that takes actual effort/intelligence, whereas bullshitting does not.

That said, yeah, I don't understand how astrology is still a thing.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:13 am
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Darkprophet232 wrote:What is the point of linking to three shitty Christian cover songs? Are you so tired of even pretending to read what others are telling you, you've decided to ignore it completely and just vomit out shitty you tube videos?



I like Apologetix and I can use their music to make a point sometimes.They parody secular songs and turn them into Christian songs.I like them it is away to enjoy the music and get a Christian message and for me to make a point sometimes. The 3 songs I posted have to do with the virgin birth and Virgo declares the virgin birth of Jesus to all the world no matter the language they speak.
Last edited by abelcainsbrother on Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:30 am
abelcainsbrotherBannedUser avatarPosts: 774Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:33 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Horoscope, Zodiac, whatever it's called.

Darkprophet232 wrote:What is the point of linking to three shitty Christian cover songs? Are you so tired of even pretending to read what others are telling you, you've decided to ignore it completely and just vomit out shitty you tube videos?



I like Apologetix and I can use their music to make a point sometimes.They parody secular songs and turn them into Christian songs.I like them it is a way to enjoy the music and get a Christian message and for me to make a point sometimes too. The 3 songs I posted have to do with the virgin birth and Virgo declares the virgin birth of Jesus to all the world no matter the language they speak.
Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:32 am
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