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Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

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Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?
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FaithlessThinkerUser avatarPosts: 618Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:41 am Gender: Cake

Post Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

A lot of people believe that demons are real and demon possession is real (meaning you can get possessed). In medicine, however, demon possession is categorized as a psychiatric diagnosis such as "dissociative identity disorder" [link]. What is your stance on this matter, and could you provide original research backing up your stance?
It was my honest attempt to find a more pure form of God that made me realise that there was none.”
— Master_Ghost_Knight
Previously known as anon1986sing. You can call me FT. :)
Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:00 pm
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Doc.User avatarPosts: 642Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:14 pm

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

of course It's real!

edit: you mean like "the exorcist" or maybe "Konstantine" right?
Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:11 pm
SquawkModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2011Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:25 pm Gender: Tree

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

anon1986sing wrote:A lot of people believe that demons are real and demon possession is real (meaning you can get possessed). In medicine, however, demon possession is categorized as a psychiatric diagnosis such as "dissociative identity disorder" [link]. What is your stance on this matter, and could you provide original research backing up your stance?



My stance is fairly simple. I have limited knowledge of the phenomena so I won't speculate on the precise mechanisms at work. However, I have never seen any evidence that stands up to scrutiny on demons, the supernatural or indeed anything other than the natural world, and so I dismiss the idea of demonic position along with all other supernatural BS.
Pope Rat: "Exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny."

Squawk response: "O Rly?"
Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:54 pm
FaithlessThinkerUser avatarPosts: 618Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:41 am Gender: Cake

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

Doc. wrote:of course It's real!

edit: you mean like "the exorcist" or maybe "Konstantine" right?

haha! "The Exorcist" and "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" are indeed two movies that reinforced the belief in demon possession in a lot of people. (That brings me to another question below.)

What brings me to this discussion is when my wife asks me to explain demon possessions. (Think about that! She doesn't have to explain anything, I have to explain everything!) She said she has seen (heard) with her own eyes (ears) a lady, who was (supposedly) demon possessed, talking in a very different voice, a man's voice. I can't remember for sure if she said it's a different language. She added that the man's voice is very genuine and she's sure it's definitely a demon.

As for the question from above, do you think some people get influenced by media such as TV shows, movies and books to have beliefs in supernatural beings? Please ignore that millions of people are influenced by religious holy books to believe in supernatural agents of creation. I'm specifically talking about other media like
  • those exorcism movies above,
  • movies about vampires,
  • novels of horror stories involving vampires,
  • werewolves and such,
  • novels involving fairies and imaginative creatures like them,
  • TV shows such as Sabrina the Teenage Witch...
I'm guessing most people are like me, in that they realize that media such as the examples above is just works of fiction, and should not be regarded as real or pertaining to reality in any way. But I find that some people easily believe that these things could be real, and some (like my wife) to the extend of actually "seeing" certain beings in their surroundings. I'm not sure how clearly they see, but my wife always says she sees things more clearly after watching a movie of the sorts above. Is she influenced by the visual imagery of the movie? Why do these media have such an effect on people like her?
It was my honest attempt to find a more pure form of God that made me realise that there was none.”
— Master_Ghost_Knight
Previously known as anon1986sing. You can call me FT. :)
Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:55 pm
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GiliellUser avatarPosts: 1218Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:29 am Gender: Female

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

anon1986sing wrote:
What brings me to this discussion is when my wife asks me to explain demon possessions. (Think about that! She doesn't have to explain anything, I have to explain everything!) She said she has seen (heard) with her own eyes (ears) a lady, who was (supposedly) demon possessed, talking in a very different voice, a man's voice. I can't remember for sure if she said it's a different language. She added that the man's voice is very genuine and she's sure it's definitely a demon.


So, how did that demon speak through her?
Did he use her actual mouth, vocal chords? If yes, he could only produce sounds she was physically capable of making them herself, which means that there's no need for a supernatural explenation (Ockham again, silly old bastard). If not, how could he be talking through her and why not just send his voice somewhere in the room?
Go to heaven, we don't want you in hell with us!
Most people don't object to discrimination and oppression as such, they only object to being at the receiving end
Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:04 am
borrofburiModeratorPosts: 3527Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:27 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

anon1986sing wrote:What brings me to this discussion is when my wife asks me to explain demon possessions. (Think about that! She doesn't have to explain anything, I have to explain everything!) She said she has seen (heard) with her own eyes (ears) a lady, who was (supposedly) demon possessed, talking in a very different voice, a man's voice. I can't remember for sure if she said it's a different language. She added that the man's voice is very genuine and she's sure it's definitely a demon.

Eek, do not get into this debate about what she did or did not see. Instead show her these:
C0nc0rdance being amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJWxajLJPtU
Qualia soup with not so awesome animations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPqerbz8KDc
Brian Brushwood's lecture on the highly fallible nature of people (whole lecture is good, this particular clip is on the unreliability of our own memories): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfhIuaD183I

Together these videos (especially including other C0nc0rdance pitfalls of thinking videos and the rest of the brian brushwood lecture) demonstrate why we have well controlled scientific studies in the first place: humans are not perfect perception machines, we see the wrong thing all the time, remember things incorrectly all the time, and are highly susceptible to suggestion. This is why I (and Squawk, and plenty others on this forum and elsewhere) will not accept the existence of a supernatural phenomena until it can be demonstrated under well-controlled conditions.

Also, your wife is not a trained psychologist is she? Is she a trained doctor? Then who is she to dismiss that what she was witnessing, even if she remembers it perfectly, was not possible purely through natural means? It would seem to me she neither has the training in psychology to know if this was a psychological illness, nor does she have training and understanding of the human body (in particular vocal chords) to know whether or not a "man's voice" coming from a female was possible or if it had to have supernatural influence.
Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:05 pm
JustBusiness17User avatarPosts: 1484Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:29 amLocation: Earth, Solar System, Milky Way, The Universe, Etc etc... Gender: Male

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

anon1986sing wrote:As for the question from above, do you think some people get influenced by media such as TV shows, movies and books to have beliefs in supernatural beings? Please ignore that millions of people are influenced by religious holy books to believe in supernatural agents of creation.


Funny enough, I'm watching the rest of the Brian Bushwood presentation and the issue of blockbuster media influence comes up at the 2:30 mark of this segment:

ttyl
Sat May 01, 2010 4:04 pm
FaithlessThinkerUser avatarPosts: 618Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:41 am Gender: Cake

Post Re: Demon Possession - Real or a Mental Disorder?

Thanks for your replies. Lol yea the "demon" possessing the lady should only be able to produce the voice she herself is producing. So if there was a different voice it could have been produced by somebody else or something else. Question is, if the claim says the lady produces the male voice, what are the possible scientific explanations for that?

I would really love to show her the videos, but she'll just refuse to watch saying "so boring". I enjoyed the videos, and thoroughly enjoyed Brian Brushwood's lecture. Sadly part 9 got removed by YouTube. Funny thing is the thumbnail of part 9 shows South Park, and I thought of a conspiracy theory that the removal could be because of the recent South Park "Muslim Sensitivity Infraction". LOL it's just a conspiracy theory =P

Anyway the co-relation between recent movies and recent rises in beliefs is astounding. I was thinking that new movies of new twists should be produced that documents or re-enacts scientific facts and scientific knowledge, instead of propogating parascientific and pseudoscientific BS. In a way that it's interesting to general public, of course.

Edit: I attempted to show Brian's lecture to her by masking it behind the words "Hey wanna see a cool dude with really spiky hair?" She started watching, then fell asleep in the middle of part 2.
It was my honest attempt to find a more pure form of God that made me realise that there was none.”
— Master_Ghost_Knight
Previously known as anon1986sing. You can call me FT. :)
Sun May 02, 2010 1:53 am
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