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Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

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Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid
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davros of skaroUser avatarPosts: 33Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:35 pm Gender: Male

Post Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

*Four videos that show being Agnostic on the historicity of Jesus is the valid default position.The 5th video is about the archeological evidence that casts doubt on the Old Testament.

Keep in mind that mainstream scholarship thought that the Biblical Patriarchs were historical.Thomas L Thompson changed that line of thinking in 1974 with "The History of the Patriarchal Narratives".

Keep in mind also Islam needs an historical Jesus, otherwise it makes Muhammad a liar.

Take the time to review the works of these historians and archeologists to make up your own mind.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUZOZN-9dc

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MclBbZUFSag

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MUUP4l6l4

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MzrIHdN9O7M

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9XK3DcQe9s

Additional information:

Jesus 6 BCE-33? CE
 
There's no contemporary sources for Jesus during his supposed lifetime.

Pauline Epistles 51-58 CE 

Only 7 out of 13 letters of Paul are considered nonpseudographical.Paul is not a witness to a living Jesus, but through revelation.

Rome Sacking of Judea 70 CE 

The Gospels are labeled by Church tradition, but are from unknown Greek educated writers.They make the same translation mistakes found in the Greek version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint.

Mark 65-70? CE 

Matthew 75-80? CE 

Luke 75-90? CE

John 85-125? CE

The Gospels are Euhemerization (myths made into history) to control doctrine.

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/euhemerization

Here is an example of prophecy being filled using the Greek Old Testament translation.

Mark,  and Luke has Jesus on a Colt (young Horse).

John has Jesus on a young Donkey.

Matthew which is the 2nd Gospel written has Jesus on a Donkey, and a Colt at the same time (which is comical).

Zechariah 9:9 (Greek Septuagint translation)

 lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Zechariah 9:9 (original Hebrew)

 lowly, and riding on a Donkey, even a colt the, foal of an Donkey.

The Hebrew version is being poetic.

The Greek translation has the mistake of switching out "even" for "and".

Matthew 21:7

7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

The author of Matthew used the Septuagint's mistaken translation to fulfill prophecy.


The only mention of Jesus outside the New Testament in the 1st century is by the historian Josephus. Josephus mentions Jesus twice, but they have red flags of forgery.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html

Josephus in Testimonium Flavianum Antiquities of the Jews 93-94 CE mentions Jesus,and as the Christ.The wording of the passage makes Josephus a pious Jew sound like a Christian, and does not fit his style of writing,suggesting a later forged adaptation.First qouted by Eusebius (315 CE),but not mentioned by earlier apologists Justin Martyr,Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and *Origen (140-230 CE).The passage conflicts with Josephus's own belief that Vespasian is the Messiah (Title).

Chapter 18.3.3

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-18.htm

In context of chapters 18.3.2 & 18:3.4, you can see chapter 18.3.3 interupts the flow of the texts.In the words of David Fitzgerald "It's like a Britney Spears video in the middle of a funeral".

Chapter 20.9.1

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-20.htm

The James passage in Josephus's antiquities 20.9.1 "The brother of Jesus,who was called Christ,whose name was James".This is interpolation using Matthew 1:16 "Who is called Christ".In 20.9.4 of antiquities Josephus writes "James is brother of Jesus Bar Damneus".
Earl Doherty (Author of 'The Jesus Puzzle')"A good case can be made for saying that Josephus wrote nothing about Jesus and was probably unaware of any such figure."Apologist
*Origen mentions this passage,but not the other.

John Remsburg,in his 1909 book 'The Christ',stated:"To identify the James of Josephus with James the Just,the brother of Jesus, is to reject the accepted history of the primitive church which declares that James the Just died in 69 CE, 7 years after the James of Josephus was condemned to death by the Sanhedrin."


Josephus continues:
"... Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest."

Josephus tells us precisely who James is the brother of – Jesus bar Damneus!

Here are other nonBiblical references used by Apologists to cite Jesus's  historicity.

Tacitus in 116 CE mentions Christus (title),and Christians (cult).This is evidence of Christians,not evidence of Jesus the Christ.Search "Tacitus forgery"

See video @ 108:00 mark for deeper scrutiny of the Tacitus passage.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyudP5z2Xw

Pliny the Younger in 110 CE mentions that "Christians were singing a hymn to Christ as to a god".There were several people claiming to be a Messiah/Christ back in those times.

Suetonius in 121 CE mentions Chrestus (personal name),and Christians,and he maybe repeating what others have told him about this cult,or cults.

Lucian of Samosata(circa 125 - 180 CE)A second-century satirist named Lucian wrote that the basis for the Christian sect was a “man who was crucified in Palestine,”but this is merely repeating what Christians believed in the second century.Lucian does not mention Jesus by name.This reference is too late to be considered more direct historical evidence.

No work of Thallus survives.Here is a quote about him from Richard Carrier:"We know next to nothing about Thallus or his works.We don't even know if he wrote only one book or several.The only information we have about him,even his name,comes entirely from Christian apologetic sources beginning in the late 2nd century,and that information is plagued with problems."

Bart Ehrman,Did Jesus Exist?:"The Talmud is a collection of disparate materials from early Judaism.Most of the material relates to the early rabbis.The collection was put together long after the days of Jesus."The Talmud was put together approximately between the 3rd-5th centuries

Here is what is written in Baraitha Bab. Sanhedrin 43a, probably second century:

On the eve of Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! - Ulla retorted: Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a _Mesith_ [enticer], concerning him Scripture says, _Neither shalt though spare, neither shalt thou conceal him?_ With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government for royalty [i.e., influential]. Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni, and Todah.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/talmud.html

According to Michael Paulkovich (No Meek Messiah,2012,pp.199-200) there were up to 146
historians/writers (Silent Writers) during,or shortly after the supposed time of Jesus that did not mention him.

42 contemporary writers silent about Jesus while other wanna be Messiahs get mentioned.

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/jesus5.htm

Mara Bar-Serapion(circa 73 CE-?)Fragment of a personal letter from a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion to his son in prison that mentions that the Jews of that time had killed their “wise king.”The NT claims that the Romans,not the Jews,killed Jesus.The Jews had killed other leaders;for example,the Essene Teacher of Righteousness.If this truly is a report of a historical event rather than the passing on of folklore,it could have been a reference to someone else.

Celsus:A late 2nd century Greek philosopher was an opponent of Early Christianity.He is known for his literary work "The True Word" (C.177 CE) which survives exclusively in early Church apologist Origen's (184-254 CE) quotations from it in "Contra Celsum".This is too late to be evidence of Jesus Christ.


Was Jesus just a celestial deity in gnosticism from the belief of hidden messages in the Old Testament?

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gnosticism

This deity was called the "Logos" by Philo.This revelation derived from the OT had many monickers like "The First Born of God",  "The Image of God", and "The Shadow of God" to name a few.

See "Logos", and "Pneumatology"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_view_of_God

Here is a remnent of a Gnostic Jesus in the Epistles.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

*Who are the "rulers of this age"?

Why would the "rulers of this age" not crucify Christ if they knew it would give Man the chance to have eternal life in Heaven?

The Romans if they knew would not object for a chance at eternal life.

The "rulers of this age" were Demons of Gnostic belief.


"Brother of the Lord"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldTEXucN7p4

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVMK2P5BMXY


There were many preChristian saviour deities that went through a passion to have victory over death.

Here is one of the earliest.

The ancient Sumerian Goddess Inanna traveled to the Underworld.She was cursed into being a corpse then hung on a hook.After 3days/nights she was resurrected by life giving water and plants.

Here are the verse numbers, and translation (link) of the epic poem that predate Christ by at least 2,000 years.

164-172 

173-175

246-253

273-281

http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr141.htm


* Why do people believe?

Our Brains are evolved for learning, and we seek patterns in the enviroment.We have built in reward centers that are purposed for survival.These reward centers can be tricked to either cause false beliefs, and, or detrimental abuses.

For an example:People that work themselves up emotionally mistake higher levels of neurochemical production as being touched by the Holy Spirit.Dopamine causes feelings of euphoria, making sense of things that normally do not, and can add a wide range of hallucinations.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o2T-7_g6yUU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ukFjH9odsXw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwNPTP40yy8

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pUkrPNxLau0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhmpVqbw_Y

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LWYwckFrksg

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sB9sTz_gyU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6-iVz1R0o

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAwfv3HYGo

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3d33lQjZUeg


*Theists do not care about Earth.Their scripture says that God is going to make a new Earth.Why take care of the old when new is on the way?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

Isaiah 65:16-17

16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

Revelation 21:1-4

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

http://quran.com/14/47-52

Quran 14:47-52

[It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah , the One, the Prevailing.

And you will see the criminals that Day bound together in shackles,

Their garments of liquid pitch and their faces covered by the Fire.


*Theists believe people are born knowing God.

Romans 1:18-21

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Check out contradictions in the Bible & Koran plus more in this link:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDf2-EfMRAM
Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:59 am
VivreUser avatarPosts: 351Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 pmLocation: dungeon of despair Gender: Female

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

wow davros ~ what a collection of infos ... and how much time it would take to review it all 8-)

To make it easier to get an idea what videos you're suggesting I repost them again within the showmore feature (according to their appearance from your post) to allow an impression and the choice to pick a specific one. I loved to find TruthSurge being part in it :) ... and the bonustrack you placed at the end I thought be nice to have unpacked. ~ greets Vivre



Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:40 pm
WWW
davros of skaroUser avatarPosts: 33Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:35 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

Vivre wrote:wow davros ~ what a collection of infos ... and how much time it would take to review it all 8-)

To make it easier to get an idea what videos you're suggesting I repost them again within the showmore feature (according to their appearance from your post) to allow an impression and the choice to pick a specific one. I loved to find TruthSurge being part in it :) ... and the bonustrack you placed at the end I thought be nice to have unpacked.



That's a great idea...Thanks

The first four videos are my main point, and the rest is food for thought basicly.

Yes I hope people will check out TruthSurge's playlists found on his Youtube page.

I encourage people to share the 1st four videos on other social media platforms where a like mind
might be interested.



Bucking the consensus:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/5553


By taking the time to see the evidence that shows being Agnostic on Jesus's historicity will be like in my opinion: Fighting the Fire by taking away the Oxygen.

Some people do not want to research beyond their comfortable fantasy, and lack Logic.

Why take the effort to understand the World and make an actual difference?There is no need when it's done for you.

So much has been done through the centuries to perpetuate the Whip that 
people gladly line their backs to.Meanwhile the very first symbol of this cult may have had an entire different meaning?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogenic_fish
Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:16 am
yallaPosts: 2Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:42 am

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

Thomas L Thomas opens his "Historicity of the Narratives of the Patriarchs' by outlining the orthodox wisdom of the time [early 1970s], namely that biblical criticism and archaeological research had established the reality of the Patriarchs, as outlined in the OT, as an established fact, essentially accepted in its broad sweep by the prominent scholars of the time.
And then he methodically and thoroughly knocked over all the shonky props holding that edifice up.

His reward was to have his PhD denied, by a bloke named Ratzinger, to lose hope of academic tenure and to spend years wandering in the wilderness partly supporting himself by house painting.
But he had challenged the paradigm. And his challenge could not be denied.
By the turn of the millennium the historicity of the patriarchs, along with the assumption of the historicity of the Exodus and the Conquest of Canaan, was receding into academic disregard until today, apart from a few academic diehards and fundamentalists, the pre-existing paradigm has vacated the stage.
Not many scholars can claim that they successfully challenged an existing paradigm of an academic discipline and had it consigned to the dust bin of history.
A brave action, ultimately getting the acclaim it deserved.

I wrote all that to suggest that we are in the early middle stages of a similar paradigm stage with respect to the orthodox assumption of the historicity of Jesus.
That the questioning is beginning to gain momentum, the props that hold it up the current orthodox wisdom are being gnawed at and the edifice is swaying in a breeze that, I suggest, will grow in intensity.

Interesting times.
Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:42 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4998Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

Great post, and welcome to LoR yalla!
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:05 pm
yallaPosts: 2Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:42 am

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

Thank you for the welcome.

I mentioned the 'censorship' of Thomas L Thompson as a result of his daring to question the existing paradigm of his time.
Here is his memory of such written many years later.


With, to just whet your appetite , an excerpt involving a famous name.



"I was assigned to take my examinations in dogmatic theology from the professor of systematic theology, Joseph Ratzinger. When I spoke with him concerning bibliography for the upcoming examination, he explained to me that a Catholic could not write such a dissertation as I had and that I would not be receiving my PhD from their faculty in Tübingen. I must point out that the shock with which I met this statement.....

http://www.bibleinterp.com/opeds/critscho358014.shtml
Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:06 am
davros of skaroUser avatarPosts: 33Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:35 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

yalla wrote:Thomas L Thomas opens his "Historicity of the Narratives of the Patriarchs' by outlining the orthodox wisdom of the time [early 1970s], namely that biblical criticism and archaeological research had established the reality of the Patriarchs, as outlined in the OT, as an established fact, essentially accepted in its broad sweep by the prominent scholars of the time.
And then he methodically and thoroughly knocked over all the shonky props holding that edifice up.

His reward was to have his PhD denied, by a bloke named Ratzinger, to lose hope of academic tenure and to spend years wandering in the wilderness partly supporting himself by house painting.
But he had challenged the paradigm. And his challenge could not be denied.
By the turn of the millennium the historicity of the patriarchs, along with the assumption of the historicity of the Exodus and the Conquest of Canaan, was receding into academic disregard until today, apart from a few academic diehards and fundamentalists, the pre-existing paradigm has vacated the stage.
Not many scholars can claim that they successfully challenged an existing paradigm of an academic discipline and had it consigned to the dust bin of history.
A brave action, ultimately getting the acclaim it deserved.

I wrote all that to suggest that we are in the early middle stages of a similar paradigm stage with respect to the orthodox assumption of the historicity of Jesus.
That the questioning is beginning to gain momentum, the props that hold it up the current orthodox wisdom are being gnawed at and the edifice is swaying in a breeze that, I suggest, will grow in intensity.

Interesting times.


Awesome informative post. I reorganized and added more info to my first post which I am going to repost.It's my hope that more and more Atheists at the very least be Agnostic on Jesus's historicity.
Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:04 pm
davros of skaroUser avatarPosts: 33Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:35 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Four Lectures:Agnostic on Historicity is Valid

I reorganized the information.If anyone likes this?Please feel free to copy/paste and share. Thanks...



*Three lectures that show being Agnostic on the historicity of Jesus is a valid default position.

Keep in mind that mainstream scholarship thought that the Biblical Patriarchs were historical.Thomas L Thompson changed that line of thinking in 1974 with "The History of the Patriarchal Narratives".

Keep in mind also that Islam needs an historical Jesus, otherwise it makes Muhammad a liar.Jesus is a prophet of Allah in Islam.

Ten beautiful lies about Jesus: David Fitzgerald (Note: D Fitzgerald is mentored by R Carrier a Phd in ancient history)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MzrIHdN9O7M

Why the Gospels are Myth: Dr. Richard Carrier

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MclBbZUFSag

Why I Think Jesus Didn't Exist: Dr. Richard Carrier

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUZOZN-9dc


Bonus videos:

The Book of Acts as Historical Fiction: Dr. Richard Carrier

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B5MUUP4l6l4

Miracles and Historical Method: Dr. Richard Carrier

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QaENP1R-lbY

The Bible UnEarthed

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9XK3DcQe9s

The Bible's Buried Secrets

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qalTJzk4kO0


Additional information:

On Evaluating Arguments From Consensus by Dr. Richard Carrier

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/5553

Jesus 6 BCE-33? CE
 
There's no contemporary sources for Jesus during his supposed lifetime.

Pauline Epistles 51-58 CE 

Only 7 out of 13 letters of Paul are considered nonpseudographical.Paul is not a witness to a living Jesus, but through revelation.

Rome Sacking of Judea 70 CE 

The Gospels are labeled by Church tradition, but are from unknown Greek educated writers.They make the same translation mistakes found in the Greek version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint.

Mark 65-70? CE 

Matthew 75-80? CE 

Luke 75-90? CE

John 85-125? CE

The Gospels are Euhemerization (myths made into history) to control doctrine.

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/euhemerization


*The only mention of Jesus outside the New Testament in the 1st century is by the historian Josephus. Josephus mentions Jesus twice, but they have red flags of forgery, and misidentification.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html

Josephus in Testimonium Flavianum Antiquities of the Jews 93-94 CE mentions Jesus,and as the Christ.The wording of the passage makes Josephus a pious Jew sound like a Christian, and does not fit his style of writing,suggesting a later forged adaptation.First qouted by Eusebius (315 CE),but not mentioned by earlier apologists Justin Martyr,Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and *Origen (140-230 CE).The passage conflicts with Josephus's own belief that Vespasian is the Messiah (Title).

Chapter 18.3.3

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-18.htm

In context of chapters 18.3.2 & 18:3.4, you can see chapter 18.3.3 interupts the flow of the texts.In the words of David Fitzgerald "It's like a Britney Spears video in the middle of a funeral".

Chapter 20.9.1

http://m.ccel.org/ccel/josephus/works/files/ant-20.htm

The James passage in Josephus's antiquities 20.9.1 "The brother of Jesus,who was called Christ,whose name was James".This is interpolation using Matthew 1:16 "Who is called Christ".In 20.9.4 of antiquities Josephus writes "James is brother of Jesus Bar Damneus".
Earl Doherty (Author of 'The Jesus Puzzle')"A good case can be made for saying that Josephus wrote nothing about Jesus and was probably unaware of any such figure."Apologist
*Origen mentions this passage,but not the other.

John Remsburg,in his 1909 book 'The Christ',stated:"To identify the James of Josephus with James the Just,the brother of Jesus, is to reject the accepted history of the primitive church which declares that James the Just died in 69 CE, 7 years after the James of Josephus was condemned to death by the Sanhedrin."


Josephus continues:
"... Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest."

Josephus tells us precisely who James is the brother of – Jesus bar Damneus!

Here are other nonBiblical references used by Apologists to cite Jesus's  historicity.

Tacitus in 116 CE mentions Chrestus (title),and Christians (cult).This is evidence of Christians,not evidence of Jesus the Christ.Search "Tacitus forgery"

See video @ 108:00 mark for deeper scrutiny of the Tacitus passage by Dr. Richard Carrier.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMyudP5z2Xw

Pliny the Younger in 110 CE mentions that "Christians were singing a hymn to Christ as to a god".There were several people claiming to be a Messiah/Christ back in those times.

Suetonius in 121 CE mentions Chrestus (personal name),and Christians,and he maybe repeating what others have told him about this cult,or cults.

Lucian of Samosata(circa 125 - 180 CE)A second-century satirist named Lucian wrote that the basis for the Christian sect was a “man who was crucified in Palestine,”but this is merely repeating what Christians believed in the second century.Lucian does not mention Jesus by name.This reference is too late to be considered more direct historical evidence.

No work of Thallus survives.Here is a quote about him from Richard Carrier:"We know next to nothing about Thallus or his works.We don't even know if he wrote only one book or several.The only information we have about him,even his name,comes entirely from Christian apologetic sources beginning in the late 2nd century,and that information is plagued with problems."

Bart Ehrman,Did Jesus Exist?:"The Talmud is a collection of disparate materials from early Judaism.Most of the material relates to the early rabbis.The collection was put together long after the days of Jesus."The Talmud was put together approximately between the 3rd-5th centuries

Here is what is written in "Baraitha Bab. Sanhedrin 43a", probably second century or later.

"On the eve of Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! - Ulla retorted: Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a _Mesith_ [enticer], concerning him Scripture says, _Neither shalt though spare, neither shalt thou conceal him?_ With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government for royalty [i.e., influential]. Our Rabbis taught: Yeshu had five disciples, Matthai, Nakai, Nezer, Buni, and Todah."

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/talmud.html

According to Michael Paulkovich (No Meek Messiah,2012,pp.199-200) there were up to 146
historians/writers (Silent Writers) during,or shortly after the supposed time of Jesus that did not mention him.

42 contemporary writers silent about Jesus while other wanna be Messiahs get mentioned.

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/jesus5.htm

Mara Bar-Serapion(circa 73 CE-?)Fragment of a personal letter from a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion to his son in prison that mentions that the Jews of that time had killed their “wise king.”The NT claims that the Romans,not the Jews,killed Jesus.The Jews had killed other leaders;for example,the Essene Teacher of Righteousness.If this truly is a report of a historical event rather than the passing on of folklore,it could have been a reference to someone else.

Celsus:A late 2nd century Greek philosopher was an opponent of Early Christianity.He is known for his literary work "The True Word" (C.177 CE) which survives exclusively in early Church apologist Origen's (184-254 CE) quotations from it in "Contra Celsum".This is too late to be evidence of Jesus Christ.


*Was Jesus just a celestial deity in gnosticism from the belief of hidden messages in the Old Testament?

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gnosticism

This deity was called the "Logos" by Philo.This revelation derived from the OT had many monickers like "The First Born of God",  "The Image of God", and "The Shadow of God" to name a few.

See "Logos", and "Pneumatology"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_view_of_God

Here is a remnent of a Gnostic Jesus in the Epistles.

1 Corinthians 2:6-8

6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

*Who are the "rulers of this age"?

Why would the "rulers of this age" not crucify Christ if they knew it would give Man the chance to have eternal life in Heaven?

The Romans if they knew would not object for a chance at eternal life.

The "rulers of this age" were Demons of Gnostic belief that control Earth.


*In Galatians the "Brother of the Lord" passage is often used as evidence for Jesus.Here is a two part breakdown (Be sure to check out other videos by Youtuber TruthSurge).

James, Brother of the Lord Part 1

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldTEXucN7p4

James, Brother of the Lord Part 2

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVMK2P5BMXY


*Here is an example of prophecy being filled using the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint) translation.

Mark,  and Luke has Jesus on a Colt (young Horse).

John has Jesus on a young Donkey.

Matthew which is the 2nd Gospel written has Jesus on a Donkey, and a Colt at the same time (which is comical).

Zechariah 9:9 (Greek Septuagint translation)

 lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

Zechariah 9:9 (original Hebrew)

 lowly, and riding on a Donkey, even a colt the, foal of an Donkey.

The Hebrew version is being poetic.

The Greek translation has the mistake of switching out "even" for "and".

Matthew 21:7

7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

The author of Matthew used the Septuagint's mistaken translation to fulfill prophecy.


*There were many preChristian saviour deities that went through a passion to have victory over death.

Here is one of the earliest.

The ancient Sumerian Goddess Inanna traveled to the Underworld.She was cursed into being a corpse then hung on a hook.After 3days/nights she was resurrected by life giving water and plants.

Here are the verse numbers, and translation (link) of the epic poem that predate Christ by at least 2,000 years.

164-172 

173-175

246-253

273-281

http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr141.htm

Check out post #7 in this link to see the original "Eat my body, drink my blood".

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269942

Sermon on the Mount was not so divine.

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/?title=Sermon_on_the_Mount

Evolution of Satan in the Bible

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j-gbOnWj6Mw


* Why do people believe?

Our Brains are evolved for learning, and we seek patterns in the enviroment.We have built in reward centers that are purposed for survival.These reward centers can be tricked to either cause false beliefs, and, or detrimental abuses.

For an example:People that work themselves up emotionally mistake higher levels of neurochemical production as being touched by the Holy Spirit.Dopamine causes feelings of euphoria, making sense of things that normally do not, and can add a wide range of hallucinations.

Here're various videos on Dopamine, Schizophrenia, hallucinations, addiction, and patternicity.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o2T-7_g6yUU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ukFjH9odsXw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwNPTP40yy8

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pUkrPNxLau0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhmpVqbw_Y

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LWYwckFrksg

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sB9sTz_gyU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6-iVz1R0o

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nCVzz96zKA0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YqAwfv3HYGo

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3d33lQjZUeg


*Some people do not want to research beyond their comfortable fantasy.

Why take the effort to understand the World and make an actual difference?There is no need when it's done for you.

So much has been done through the centuries to perpetuate the Whip that 
people gladly line their backs to.Meanwhile the very first symbol of this cult may have had an entire different meaning?Think how sacred a Fish would be if it allowed you to see into the Heavenly realms.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogenic_fish


*Theists do not care about Earth.Their scripture says that God is going to make a new Earth.Why take care of the old when new is on the way?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

Isaiah 65:16-17

16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=KJV

Revelation 21:1-4

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

http://quran.com/14/47-52

Quran 14:47-52

[It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah , the One, the Prevailing.

And you will see the criminals that Day bound together in shackles,

Their garments of liquid pitch and their faces covered by the Fire.


*Theists believe people are born knowing God.

Romans 1:18-21

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.


*This is the tip of the Iceberg on what is taught about nonbelievers that worship themselves & not God.

2 Corinthians 6:14

14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?


Check out contradictions in the Bible & Quran plus more in this link:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

Is the Quran a Miracle?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHm2xigkBc

Scientific Miracles in the Quran

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0XLg-SRGMNk


*Sperm is from the Backbone and Ribs.

http://quran.com/86/5-7

86:5

So let man observe from what he was created.

86:6

He was created from a fluid, ejected,

86:7

Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.


*Allah created seven Heavens.

This is the Pagan notion of the seven naked eye visible Planets that followed the plane of the ecliptic.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_planet

http://quran.com/65/12

65:12

It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.

http://quran.com/41/12

41:12

And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

^ "It's command" is the movement of the seven classical Planets.The meaning of "Lamps" are the Stars, and "protection" are the Shooting Stars that ward off Jinn (Spirits) from listening in on Allah's celelstial council.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/fo ... try5110144


*The Sun orbits in a Geocentric system.

http://quran.com/91/1-2

91:1

By the sun and its brightness

91:2

And [by] the moon when it follows it

http://quran.com/36/37-43

36:37

And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it [the light of] day, so they are [left] in darkness.

36:38

And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

36:39

And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns [appearing] like the old date stalk.

36:40

It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.

http://quran.com/13/2

13:2

It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you [can] see; then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. He arranges [each] matter; He details the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain.

http://quran.com/31/29

31:29

Do you not see that Allah causes the night to enter the day and causes the day to enter the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term, and that Allah , with whatever you do, is Acquainted?

http://quran.com/21/33

21:33

And it is He who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon; all [heavenly bodies] in an orbit are swimming.

http://quran.com/14/33

14:33

And He subjected for you the sun and the moon, continuous [in orbit], and subjected for you the night and the day.

http://quran.com/39/5

He created the heavens and earth in truth. He wraps the night over the day and wraps the day over the night and has subjected the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. Unquestionably, He is the Exalted in Might, the Perpetual Forgiver.


*Is the Moon it's own source of light?

Check out 7 translations and it's differences (be sure to bookmark the  site incase you want to compare future verses you may encounter).

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp ... 10&verse=5


*Saying "Disfellowship" to Jehovah's Witnesses should get them to leave you alone.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah' ... discipline

The Complete Heretic's Guide to Mormonism

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=upmtWnVl9PE

Ancient Trinity Worship

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=coHLC7ajGFk

What Does God Need With a Starship?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDf2-EfMRAM

Some Atheist Youtubers with great content:

http://m.youtube.com/user/WildwoodClaire1

http://m.youtube.com/user/BionicDance

http://m.youtube.com/user/stevelikes2curse

http://m.youtube.com/user/bdwilson1000

http://m.youtube.com/user/EssenceOfThought

http://m.youtube.com/user/WeLoveAtheism

http://m.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector

http://m.youtube.com/user/CultOfDusty

http://m.youtube.com/user/TheMessianicManic

http://m.youtube.com/user/patcondell

http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCOh1wGrPiJbmJFInY5PN1Sg

http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCg6MuFVugHwWCp1YDQDAy1w
Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:08 pm
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