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When 'asked' I answer.

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When 'asked' I answer.
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NahliPosts: 8Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:55 am Gender: Male

Post When 'asked' I answer.

When clicking over from the main page this section's sub-heading reads "What do you believe?" As I find most people to be curious, and myself enjoying the opinions of others (No matter the level of agreement or disagreement or how harsh) I gladly answer the stated yet essentially unasked question.
(Feel free to share your opinion on this I welcome it gladly, what ever it is.)


(As an aside if Aron Ra still frequents these boards I think I have a "Faith-losophy" that even he would be hard pressed to find fault with. So much so that I would put finding fault in what I have here as a challenge to him.)


The Faith Of The Scroll

Through
Hope
Enhance

Freedom,
Aspiring to
Inspire
Thoughts,
Helping an

Organized
Faith

Thoughtfully
Hold
Extraordinary

Stardust
Creativity
Reaching
Out to
Logic's
Liberty

Tag Line: The Faith Of The Scroll; Faith Intelligently Designed

Symbolism: The scroll and similar tools, were among the first devices used to carry knowledge from any one person to any other person capable of understanding the delivery method. Such tools as this aided greatly in the establishment of the modern world we inhabit. As the passing of knowledge encourages the advancement and betterment of the world, the scroll is seen as an appropriate symbol of this faith. Further the action of scrolling in regards to the internet avails to us further information is seen as so far the greatest evolution of the 'scroll' so far.


Ideals

A Flexible Faith: Though it is only faith, faith must change over time to maintain it's relevance to the world, as well as those who hold it as important to them.
Celebrate In Joy Your Freedoms: Be joyous in your life for joy is what you deserve.
Decry Blind Faith As Dishonest To All
Ethical Eclesiasm: Any member of the Clergy of this faith found to be opposing the Ethics of this faith must be removed from this faith.
Faith May Only Be Asserted As Faith, Never Knowledge Or Truth
Freedom In Expression: How so ever you choose to express yourself is as Divine as you are, so long as your actions cause no physical, financial or psychological harm.
Guilt By Wrong Action: Only actions you perform which are Wrong Actions upon another should cause you guilt.
Honesty Of Self: Always be honest with your self, logically and emotionally, accept what is within you and who you are.
Limitless Thought: Though actions may be wrong and should therefor limited, thoughts must not be.
Limitless Love: Love freely those that love you in kind.
Logical Liberty: Faith must be secondary to Logic, Reason or Fact.
This faith may not act in a way to limit Logic, Reason, Fact & Knowledge.
Members of this faith hold only faith, never belief and assert that our faith is only faith.
Pursuit Of Knowledge & Experience: Knowledge and experience are the foundation of the wisdom to know if an action is right or wrong, seek them always.
Progress & The Betterment Of All Of Civilization: Even if only in small ways strive to improve any and all aspects of the world around you.
Ready Forgiveness & Restrained Rage: Readily forgive accidental Wrong Actions against you and hold off your rage till you find by investigation if it is deserved. Anger takes effort better spent to repair.
Sentient, Rational, Creative Beings Are To Be Held As Precious & Divine
Total Equality: No facet of a Sentient, Rational, Creative Being's gender, orientation, physical status, mental status, religion, lack of religion or any other quality should be used as an excuse for negatively different treatment.
Strive To Perform More Right Actions Than Wrong Actions
Right Actions: Those actions which on the average a Sentient, Rational, Creative Being would want enacted upon themselves.*
Wrong Actions: Those actions which on the average a Rational, Creative Being would not want enacted upon themselves.*
The Idea Of An Afterlife And The Specifics There Of Are The Decision Of Each Member.
The Existence God(s) Or Spirit(s) Is Only As A Possibility, Their Existence Or Lack There Of Is Up To Each Member To Decide.

*Though there may be exceptions it is only through wisdom that we may come to know them.


Definitions
Belief: Any idea or ideal put forth and asserted as true without factual supporting evidence.
Blind Faith: Unquestioning behavior towards anything that is dictated by the religion of faith of choice, no matter how foolish, or even if one "rule" (or "guideline") contradicts another.
Credo: A statement of the beliefs or aims that guide someone's action.
Creed: A system of religious beliefs; a faith, involving required and excluded beliefs.
Equality: The state of being equal, esp. in status, rights, and opportunities.
Faith: Any idea or ideal put forth as possible but not true, without factual supporting evidence.
God: Any entity described as having an infinite or functionally infinite trait.
Knowledge: Information and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject. What is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information.
Postulate: A thing suggested or assumed as possible for the basis of discussion.
Religion: Details of belief as taught or discussed.
Right: A moral, just or honest action.
Ritual: An action or set of actions repeated frequently for a specified purpose.
Spirit: An ephemeral representation of any physical object, mental concept or persona.
Soul: The spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal that supposedly gives life to the body and in many religions is believed to exist forever, though is not supported by any evidence.
Truth: That which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
Wrong: An unjust, dishonest, or immoral action.


Ordinances (Rituals)

Challenging: The act of Challenging each member to provide reasons (That are as rational as possible.) for following this faith. To keep sharp the minds of those following in this faith, members are encouraged to question themselves and each other as to their reasons for pursuing truth and to prevent blind obedience. Any game of stories, riddles, word puzzles and the like are also welcome as they keep within the spirit of building a strong and or agile mind. In this practice we also ensure mutual independence and free thought. We acknowledge that though independent we hold certain traits and opinions in common thus strengthening our sense of community and fellowship. Any and all members are encouraged to conduct a Challenging whenever they see fit.

The Working of the Mouth: In this act those of the Faith, through partaking of sustenance and sharing of information of common interest commemorate the idea that our wealth whether of knowledge or of material things (in this case food), should be shared. The spread of wealth, much like the spread of truth is counter to death and ignorance. Members should feel free to converse upon any topic as well as to freely wander among all topics relevant to them. Further any who show an interest should be welcomed to join and share in the wealth. Any form of gathering where both informed conversation and food are present, from a local pot-luck, to a group visit to a restaurant is an acceptable venue for this gathering. If possible The Working of the Mouth is encouraged to be held once a month.


The Principals Of Truth (T-POT)
(The principals of truth are not themselves truth but a means to pursue truth.)

What exists, exists; from this principle, all knowledge is built. It is the point from which life must be embraced. Thinking is a choice you must make. Wishes and whims are not facts neither are they a means to discover them. The process of reason is our only way of grasping the reality about us our primal human tool of survival. We may forgo thought and reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss that we refuse to see. Faith and feelings are part of you and enhance life's joys. However it is logic that is the mind's light. In rejecting reason, refusing to think, one embraces death. Our history can teach us and our experiences prepare us for how the future might be. Our past can comfort us with beloved memories, and create a foundation of what has been accomplished. However only the future holds life. If we live only in the past we embrace what is dead. If we are to live life to the fullest, we must make each day a new experience. To be successful as rational, thinking beings, it is our intellect, not a blind devotion, or fear of what happened in the past, that should guide us.

Almost anyone will believe almost anything. People will believe a lie because they want it to be true, or because they're afraid it might be true. People can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool. Listen with your mind and your heart, but never be afraid to look beyond the words of others and find out for yourself.

No matter what a person says, you should watch that person's actions to be sure that they do not deceive you.

Kindness and good intentions can be an insidious path to destruction. Sometimes doing what seems right is wrong, and can cause harm. The only counter to it is knowledge, wisdom, vigilance, forethought, and understanding the situation. Even then, that is not always enough.

When you ignore the truth you betray all that you hold dear, all for the sake of a lie that is more convenient to you than reality.

Seek always the truth in life for yourself, do not simply believe what you are told without our own rational understanding and clarity in that truth. For without your own cause and reason you will find yourself clinging to empty promises and following the path of the blind. What you learn by seeking the truth, if used wisely, is the key to enjoying life to its fullest. Those who use the truth without wisdom however, only betray themselves.

Letting your emotions have sole control your decisions may cause trouble for yourself and those around you.

To believe in a contradiction is to abandon all belief in the world around you and all the things there in. If you instead give up logic for any random imagining that strikes your fancy and suddenly assert that something is real simply because you wish it were none can trust the truth of your words or your mind. Blind faith is the artifice of self-delusion, it is sleight of hand performed with words and emotions built upon any irrational notion that can be called up from impossible fantasy. Blind faith is the attempt to cause truth to surrender to whim. It is the effort of trying to give life to a lie by attempting to obfuscate the beauty of reality with the gossamer wings of empty wishes. Blind faith is the Elysium of fools, the ignorant, and the deluded, not of thinking, rational people. In reality, contradictions cannot exist. To grant them your belief you must abandon your prized possession: your rational mind. You put at stake in such a bargain your life, and in so doing lose what you wagered slowly. Day by day, lest you find your way to the light of logic.


Make your point from a solid position (Rules we should try follow when a conversation becomes heated.)

Do not attack a person's character attack the argument.
Do not misrepresent or exaggerate a person's argument in order to make it easier to attack.
Do not use small numbers to represent a whole.
Do not argue a position by assuming one of its premises is true.
Do not claim that because something happened before, it must be the cause.
Do not reduce an argument down to two possibilities.
Do not argue that because of our ignorance, a claim must be either true or false.
Do not lay the burden of proof onto the person that is questioning the claim.
Do not assume that (X) follows (1) unless there is a logical connection.
Do not claim that because a premise is popular, that it must therefore be true.


Wisdom of the Scroll

Thought before Action
Understanding before Violence
Fact before Opinion
Wisdom before Trust

When you find your path blocked
Focus upon only how to continue
Your stress and worry will
Only clutter your path further
They will never clear it

Do unto others
as you would have them
do unto you

When a novice take in,
When capable do more,
When wise give back more still.
Thus the world will grow as you do.

Strength perhaps is not having never been broken
But instead growing strong where once damaged.

Only liars fear or run from the truth

Give a little help to a person in need
and you give joy to yourself

A smile is infectious
especially to the one who wares it

Express yourself with every freedom at your disposal

So long as the law is satisfied
society only matters as much as you let it

The more wisdom you have
the less the reactions of others will surprise you

Absolute Truth can be pursued but never attained
Any claim to possess absolute truth is false,
Especially in regard to things no one can know


Days to Celebrate
Any day that celebrates or commemorates freedom, equality or reason or a person that exemplified those qualities is worthy of celebration. (Such persons are to be held as great thinkers, great contributors to society and worthy of study.)
(Examples)
(F) American Independence Day July 4th
(F) Canada Day July 1st
(F) Nelson Mandela's birthday July 18th
(F) Mexican Independence Day September 16th
(F) Emancipation Proclamation Jan 1st
(F) First democratic election held in South Africa April 27th
(R) William of Ockham (Ockham's Razor) commemorated on April 10th
(R) Nicolaus Copernicus birthday February 19th (heliocentric model)
(R) William Gilbert birthday May 24th (First to postulate the Earth itself as magnetic)
(E) Rosa Parks' birthday Feb 14th
(E) Martin Luther King, Jr.;s birthday January 15th

*F Freedom R Reason E Equality


What is acceptable within The Faith Of The Scroll

*When an action is not readily obvious as one that is Right or Wrong, one may speak with a person of Cleric or higher rank, who can aid you in finding the right decision.

Category
Action: Reason by TFOTS.

Life and Death
The purpose of life is to grow in wisdom and change the world for the better that the next generation will be granted a better world to live in.

Abortion: Permissible by circumstance. (A permissible circumstance would be after a rape or in the case that the birth or bearing would potentially kill or otherwise permanently injure or debilitate the mother or child.) Each sentient life contains a Spark of the Divine, ending any incarnation of sentience early is sad for it's potential is cut short before it can truly grow.

Assisted Suicide: Permissible by circumstance. Is seen as an alternative to forcing someone to live in an excruciating amount of constant pain. Cutting short a life is sad, but cutting short suffering can be a help. Hopefully a life in a state to ask for this will have been long and well lived.

Sex & Love

Sex is part of life, but it should not be life's focus. Love however can be a fine focus for life, though moderation here is required as well. The act of sex brings us pleasure in many forms, emotionally, mentally, physically even spiritually. Love though brings far more than pleasure, for love can heighten every facet of life.


Use of Barrier and other Prophylactics: Such tools as barriers keep a person safe from events unwanted or unwelcome (disease and or conception) and should be used when one wants to be kept safe from such unwelcome or unwanted results. Prophylactics as well should be used by those who do not seek an undesired or ill afforded outcome.

Teenage Sex: If a teen has sex they should do so safely. Waiting for greater wisdom would be for the best, but if they will not wait, get them to act safely. The teen years are filled with a wild energy already. Though one is not likely to control a person at this stage in their life, hopefully a teenager will act at the least responsibly and safely.

Premarital Sex: Sex enacted in love is far preferable to sex enacted in lust, neither though is Wrong, so long as all are properly consenting. TFOTS takes no issue with sex out of wedlock.

Extramarital Sex: Sex enacted in love is far preferable to sex enacted in lust, neither though is Wrong, so long as none are intended harm. If during the course of a marriage sex is sought outside the partnership, honesty is the only way to move forward. TFOTS takes no issue with extramarital sex, but only so long as all involved are aware of the situation in fullness.

Divorce: During the course of life people change, sometimes in that change they drift apart. If more joy can be found by both by ending their partnership then may all involved find that joy. If a divorce will remove sadness or other negative emotions from two peoples relationship it is approved by TFOTS.

Masturbation: TFOTS takes no issue with masturbation.
Polyamory: TFOTS takes no issue with polyamory.
Contraceptives: TFOTS approves of the use of contraceptives.
Married Clergy: The Clergy of TFOTS may Marry.
Female Clergy: Any among the faithful may join the Clergy TFOTS.
Transgendered Clergy: Any among the faithful may join the Clergy TFOTS.
Homosexual Orientation: TFOTS recognizes and supports love in all its forms.
Bisexual Orientation: TFOTS recognizes and supports love in all its forms.
Homosexual Sex Acts: TFOTS recognizes and supports love in all its forms.
Bisexual Sex Acts: TFOTS recognizes and supports love in all its forms.
Same-Sex Blessings in Church: TFOTS recognizes and supports love in all its forms.
Ordination of Homosexuals: Any among the faithful may join the Clergy TFOTS.
Ordination of Bisexuals: Any among the faithful may join the Clergy TFOTS.
Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:05 pm
EngelbertPosts: 290Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:03 am Gender: Male

Post Re: When 'asked' I answer.

Hi Nahli,
How's it going?


This looks like an interesting set of thoughts and ideas. It seems like a set of guidelines that you have perhaps come to through your own thoughts.

You call it The Faith of The Scroll. I'm wondering what your position of faith is, as your post appears to concentrate more on a 'well lived life', than your personal faith. Have you outlined these thoughts as a potential blueprint for it (perhaps to guide that of others too)? If so, what exactly is the faith that you have? Many of your thoughts appear quite reasonable to me.

Thanks.
Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:52 pm
NahliPosts: 8Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:55 am Gender: Male

Post Re: When 'asked' I answer.

Greetings in return.
I am currently happy, as I am roughly 90% of the time, but that is tangential to the conversation.


Thank you for the compliment. The ideas and the ideals expressed in TFOTS are indeed the product of my mind and life


My position on faith should be fairly evident if you read through my writing you should have gotten a feel for my opinion on faith. However I will gladly extrapolate on my opinion as well as copy the pertinent parts from my writing.

Decry Blind Faith As Dishonest To All
Faith May Only Be Asserted As Faith, Never Knowledge Or Truth
This faith may not act in a way to limit Logic, Reason, Fact & Knowledge.
Members of this faith hold only faith, never belief and assert that our faith is only faith.
A Flexible Faith: Though it is only faith, faith must change over time to maintain it's relevance to the world, as well as those who hold it as important to them.
Faith: Any idea or ideal put forth as possible but not true, without factual supporting evidence.
Only liars fear or run from the truth
Absolute Truth can be pursued but never attained. Any claim to possess absolute truth is false, especially in regard to things no one can know.

Now that I read over the copied information it really does neatly summarize my opinions on faith in a religious sense. Much like the edge of a blade faith is a tool, it is the use one puts to a tool that defines the transient or ephemeral qualities of that tool.


You put forth that my post, "appears to concentrate more on a 'well lived life', than your personal faith." I would ask in response can not a 'well lived life' be the central basis for a faith?

More then just a blueprint I have published my Ideals and TFOTS as a religion. I seen no reason that such would not make a viable religion.

When it comes to the afterlife, spirits, gods and such,
you already know in your heart what matters to you.
No one should try to change that.

When putting together the above idea I searched online to see if anything of similar nature existed and came across the PC game Afterlife, a simulation game. A game where in the player manages the structures of heaven, hell, reincarnation etc for people of differing or even contradictory beliefs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterlife_%28video_game%29


The central tenants of my faith are Freedom, Reason and Equality, with Honesty, Wisdom, Empathy and the Betterment of all being encouraged as well. I think that the first three lead to the rest. I also personally hold to the idea that potential is limitless.

I will say this what I have set up is what I call a Faith-losophy, and there is are three important thing is does not contain, claims of being true or absolute or any prohibitions on thought/learning.

Thank you for your writing and your interest.
Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:29 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3364Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: When 'asked' I answer.

Nahli wrote:(As an aside if Aron Ra still frequents these boards I think I have a "Faith-losophy" that even he would be hard pressed to find fault with. So much so that I would put finding fault in what I have here as a challenge to him.)

...

Decry Blind Faith As Dishonest To All


Speaking for myself, I do not think your faith-losophy is any different from what AronRa already believes. The only difference is that you and AronRa are using the word faith differently. AronRa’s definition of faith is accentually what you stated above. You both already reject claims made without evidence.
_BONES AND FOSSILS = LOVE_
(_'--------------------'_)
(_.--------------------._)
Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:24 pm
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NahliPosts: 8Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:55 am Gender: Male

Post Re: When 'asked' I answer.

Things I was unaware of, thank you he_who_is_nobody, the information is appreciated.
Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:37 am
EngelbertPosts: 290Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:03 am Gender: Male

Post Re: When 'asked' I answer.

Nahli wrote:Greetings in return.


My position on faith should be fairly evident if you read through my writing you should have gotten a feel for my opinion on faith. However I will gladly extrapolate on my opinion as well as copy the pertinent parts from my writing.



You put forth that my post, "appears to concentrate more on a 'well lived life', than your personal faith." I would ask in response can not a 'well lived life' be the central basis for a faith?

More then just a blueprint I have published my Ideals and TFOTS as a religion. I seen no reason that such would not make a viable religion.

When it comes to the afterlife, spirits, gods and such,
you already know in your heart what matters to you.
No one should try to change that.


I will say this what I have set up is what I call a Faith-losophy, and there is are three important thing is does not contain, claims of being true or absolute or any prohibitions on thought/learning.

Thank you for your writing and your interest.



Hi there Nahli,

I think I agree with many of the ideas that you have outlined here. To answer the question you ask; yes, one way of understanding faith can be via a "well lived life", so that's fair enough - perhaps as a synonym for a religious position or set of religious tenets. It's a word that can be understood in a variety of ways, so I think you're right. If that's the only way that you are using it here, then that answers my question.

I was sort of wondering what your personal position might be though. Did you outline these ideas because you have a personal belief in something, such as an afterlife or perhaps a spirituality of some sort. I was just being curious as, you'd set out what appears to be the basis for a religion, yet I'm not entirely sure what your personal beliefs were. As a basis for a well lived life, many of your ideas might fit those of any secular person (religious or not).

Thanks,

Engelbert
Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:31 am
NahliPosts: 8Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:55 am Gender: Male

Post Re: When 'asked' I answer.

Ah, now that is a horse of a different color. By the system I have where I say things like "The Idea Of An Afterlife And The Specifics There Of Are The Decision Of Each Member." and "The Existence God(s) Or Spirit(s) Is Only As A Possibility, Their Existence Or Lack There Of Is Up To Each Member To Decide.", as well as the bit you quoted. It should be (I hope) easily seen that I want to unify by freedom and individuality.

Basic tenants like these three are for positive unification.

Progress & The Betterment Of All Of Civilization: Even if only in small ways strive to improve any and all aspects of the world around you.
Right Actions: Those actions which on the average a Sentient, Rational, Creative Being would want enacted upon themselves.
Wrong Actions: Those actions which on the average a Rational, Creative Being would not want enacted upon themselves.

However I by no means want to stifle individual creative freedoms or spiritual freedoms. Which is why I have kept my own personal, just for me views out of what I have written.

Now to the specific answer to your question, I will gladly relate to any person my personal views. I will send you my views via private message. My reason for this is that I do not want to influence others with my views, I do not want to flavor what I have built with too much of my personal views. However I will also not hide my personal thoughts from those who ask.
Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:08 pm
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