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Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

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Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?
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Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Atheists have high suicide numbers.

High suicides happen in high irreligious countries.

Fact: my roommate blew his head off in my house was an atheist.

So why do these reasonable people kill themselves ?

Disscusing atheist suicides.
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:12 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:19 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2954Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

The article you cite, although raising a valid concern, is anecdotal in nature.

Within the first few sentences, he mentions a friend who died, before commenting:

While I can’t say for certain that his death was suicide, I can’t rule it out.

This is similar to saying that, if you know someone has died, but don't know the manner of their death, suicide's a possibility. It leads to the false belief that suicide is more prevalent than it actually is.

A article - to which both a commenter, and the author, link - is not available. However, searching the AJP website, offers this 2004 study of suicidal ideation in clinically depressed patients [N=371] by religious affiliation.

It should be noted that, given that many of the subjects in the study were already diagnosed as clinically depressed, this clearly introduces a bias into the study.

Further, the number of affiliated individuals [N=305] clearly indicates that - on a purely numerical comparison - suicide attempts amongst the religiously-affiliated outnumber those of the non-affiliated.

Having said that, the following is important to note:

Subjects with no religious affiliation were more often lifetime suicide attempters, reported more suicidal ideation, and were more likely to have first-degree relatives who had committed suicide than religiously affiliated subjects.

The religiously affiliated and unaffiliated subjects did not differ in terms of gender, race, education, or income. Religiously unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, and less often had children. Religiously affiliated subjects reported a more family-oriented social network, reflected in more time spent with first-degree relatives. In contrast, most unaffiliated subjects (74.3%) reported more nonfamilial relationships (friends and others) (Table 1).

It should be noted that suicide is statistically more prevalent in the young (teens, and those in their twenties) than older people. Also, given that this study is in America, coming out as non-believers tends to result in ostracization by one's family (not to mention the community ("church")) - which would have a major impact on psychological health.

The study goes on to note that:

The final model with suicidal ideation as the outcome variable and age, aggression, responsibility to family, religious affiliation, and moral objections to suicide as the independent variables revealed that high aggression scores, low moral objections to suicide, and younger age were significantly and independently associated with suicidal ideation. Religious affiliation and responsibility to family were not (Table 4).

Note the above!

Another study - a 2005/2008 Gallup poll - also shows a correlation between suicide and non-affiliation, although the reasons why people commit suicide are unknown due to the fact that people take their own life for many different reasons.

Bearing in mind that this is a poll, rather than a proper study, any conclusions are fraught with danger.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:15 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Then don't believe atheism has a problem with suicide.

Kinda like ostrich in sand syndrome I guess.
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:54 pm
Steelmage99Posts: 165Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:43 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Then don't believe atheism has a problem with suicide.

Kinda like ostrich in sand syndrome I guess.


You didn't really read Dragan's response, did you....
Blunder that theists make all the time;

Pretending to know what other people think.
Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:06 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2954Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Then don't believe atheism has a problem with suicide.

Kinda like ostrich in sand syndrome I guess.

You're going with belief rather than evidence.

This is like when the Southern Baptists funded a study comparing religious and non-religious groups as to how they performed on various social/moral issues - teen pregnancy, abortion, extra-marital affairs, divorce, etc - expecting that the SBs would perform the best (amongst the religious), with atheists worst.

To their consternation, they discovered that atheists came out on top - with SBs worst amongst the religious.

As Steelmage99 noted above, you didn't read my response - or take it in.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:09 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Again this topic is about atheism and suicide.

Not about southern Baptist tests.

Atheist analogies does not equal the suicide problem affecting atheists.

False equivalency
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:03 am
itsdemtitansBloggerUser avatarPosts: 706Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:36 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

It is 4 u :^)
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:06 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2954Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Again this topic is about atheism and suicide.

Not about southern Baptist tests.

Atheist analogies does not equal the suicide problem affecting atheists.

False equivalency

You don't seem to understand what I meant.

Firstly, I replied to your original posts with two articles - one a study, the other a poll.

You essentially dismissed these out-of-hand by simply claiming that I don't believe what you claimed.

My reply was to give an example of how you approach the subject - you have a pre-existing belief that theists are better than atheists, regardless of evidence.

My using an analogy to point this out isn't a false equivalency..

Now, why don't you address my first response by discussing the two articles to which I linked?

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:53 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Again atheism has a suicide problem
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:21 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

From your article:

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children......

Kinda proves my point....
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:24 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2954Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:From your article:

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children......

Kinda proves my point....

Missing the point.

A history of depression-related mental health issues associated with suicidal tendencies is the deciding factor - not that the individuals with higher life-time suicide attempts in this study happen to be atheist.

As I already pointed out - and as is pointed out in the study - suicide tends to be more prevalent in youth.

The main reasons being that they are less emotionally stable, less likely to be in a stable relationship, such as marriage; nor have children.

All of which results in a more psychologically stable person.

For example, NASA tends to use married people as astronauts - can you surmise why?

You're latching on to the wrong reason for suicide.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:57 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

I have no doubts I'm missing your points.

Really no doubt.

My point is atheism and suicides not NASA and married astronauts.

I hope you understand I believe you are missing my point
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:26 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

And interestingly enough... your article agrees with my point.
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:28 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

And why do you get youthful atheist suicides?.... because most atheists have short their circuitry before they get a chance to do it at a later date....

Every atheist that kills himself young does not have the opportunity to make the same fashion statement at an old age
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:40 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2954Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

You are indeed missing my point.

Those in the study came from families with a history of mental health issues associated with suicide - that's the deciding factor, not the one you seem to believe.

in general, being of a different religious affiliation than one's family - any other religion, not just non-theist - also causes psychological stress: having friends doesn't always make up for the loss of familial bonds. "Blood's thicker than water", as the saying goes.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Last edited by Dragan Glas on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:55 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Atheists should be taxed like smokers are taxed.

I mean they are a burden on the healthcare system.
Depression, alcohol, drugs, suicides.

They generally make less money, and suck the hospital savings.

These suicides need to be investigated. Costs money
Drug rehab, "free drug centres"

Free for.the atheist.but a cost for the tax payer.

Atheism should be taxed.

You want to be Atheist?

Ok lop off wages. Like smokers. By Matt dillahunty material? 50% tax for increased risk of killing yourself

Richard dawkins books? 50% tax because of.drug rehab centers.

Aron ra evolution? 50% tax for increased liklyhood of visiting psychiatrists and overburdening the system
......

Like smokers.. increased liklyhood.. .. increase cigarette costs.

Atheism.... increased liklyhood.. ..increase atheist propaganda costs.

Pretty simple actually
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:06 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

You are indeed missing my point.

.....

James


No shit ....

I said " yes I have no doubt I'm missing your point"

Then right after I said

" really I dont"

Wtf do you have to say to an Atheist... I mean could I make it any clearer?


Let me try once again........

Yes I'm missing your point.
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:09 pm
Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Like I said... I don't care about married NASA astronauts.

I don't care about your studies
I don't.care about.your denial of anecdotal.evidemce.

This topic is atheism and increased suicides

Atheists are very good at killing themselves.
You don't even need the studies.... I know atheists that have offed themselves, I do not know of one Christian who did.

Do you know of an atheist who killed himself?
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:15 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2954Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

Bernhard, if - by your own admission - you're not interested in psychiatric studies nor denial of (your) anecdotal evidence, then you're leaving no room for discussion except for your claims being accepted at face value.

Your supposed solution is simplistic. Do you think Islam should be banned and/or builders of mosques should be charged more because of those Muslims who've committed suicide-bombings?

I, personally know of no atheist who's committed suicide. I do, however, personally know of a number of (Protestant) Christians who have committed suicide.

Just because you don't know of any doesn't make your claim valid, and mine invalid.

You're simply making a claim based on your own particular religious view - that doesn't make you right.

Kindest regards,

James
Image
"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:21 pm
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