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Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

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Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?
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SparhafocPosts: 1541Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

thenexttodie wrote:I just don't think you have given any good reasons for us to legalize suicide. You have not demonstrated a need for a pro suicide social policy.


That's a fundamental misapprehension that is destructive of liberty.

One never needs to give a good reason to allow something: only to disallow it.

By default, everything is (or should be*) legal. It's only those acts that we can show cause public harm that should be legislated on.

* talking about modern, secular states based on equality and rule of law - not theocracies or loony ideological states


thenexttodie wrote:Dying from AIDS or other HIV related illnesses is not a supernatural threat. Transmitting syphilis and other STD's at an astronomical rate is not a supernatural threat. An increased risk of drug use and suicide, is not a supernatural threat.


Except that none of these have anything implicitly to do with homosexuality, as I've already explained. Either your warning is redundant to the conversation, because it's true for everyone regardless of their sexuality... or your threat is supernatural and you're warning against annoying the alleged magical entity.

Let's make this clear: HIV, AIDS, syphilis, and other STD's are spread through heterosexual sex too. Given the fact that there are a lot more heterosexual people, it stands to reason that more cases of all of the above come as a result of heterosexual sex. Ergo, why do you keep appealing to this when it provides not a jot of support for your position?

Unless, of course, you want me to believe that these are predominantly homosexual diseases. If so, please cite medical sources.


thenexttodie wrote:It is in our nature to hurt each other....


I don't accept that - I can provide evidence of homosexuality being part of our nature and of nature in general, but you can't provide evidence for your position.

Secondly, you believe God created this nature, and declared it 'good'.


thenexttodie wrote:... and to reject basically anything God says he want us to do.


Again, supposedly a nature designed by God.


thenexttodie wrote: Some of us will chose to reconcile ourselves to God and He will let us live with Him forever. For everyone else, God will put them as far away from us as possible.


Reconcile our morality to accept the monstrous levels of viciousness and immorality exhibited by this invisible being in the Bible? Supposing your God is real, he can pop his immaterial cock up his ineffable rectum for all I am concerned. Such a being does not merit respect, let alone worship.

Of course, that god is not real, and cannot be real. The mirror of anthropocentric prejudice is more than adequate to establish that.



thenexttodie wrote:
Sparhafoc wrote:I don't know - maybe you believe your god is a tyrant who can do whatever 'he' pleases, but again, the alleged Christian God's ontology as per typical Christian belief and praxis suggests that God is all about forgiveness, mercy, and love. This presents an unresolvable contradiction. Your God cannot be both the creator of nature and prepared to hurt that natural behavior unless it is capricious entity to the extreme.


Do forgiveness, mercy and love require moral apathy?


Please reply to my points regarding the contradiction identified before adding your own.

Forgiveness, mercy, and love require empathy - the ability to see and understand another person's perspective and pains. How can an entity be forgiving if there's a list of things it can never forgive? That undermines any notion that it possesses the characteristic of forgiveness. Same for the others.

Of course, what you mean is 'forgiveness' for the things you've done, mercy in the face of your failings, love regardless of who you are and what you have been.

I find it intriguing that you don't believe your god is capable of the level of empathy to forgive, be merciful, and love those who commit suicide. For me, I often see hints in ardent believers that their God is really just their ego expressed in cosmic terms.



thenexttodie wrote:Maybe I could better understand you if your could explain to me what your idea of heaven or eternal paradise is.


A fictional carrot and stick used to cow illiterate peasants into submission.

Or do you mean the idea of heaven perpetuated by Christian dogma?

These are very different things, you understand?



thenexttodie wrote:Animals eat their young, Sparhafoc. They defecate and masturbate in front of each other. Are you saying homosexuals behave like animals? So it's ok? That's a weird argument.


Where did I say that homosexuals behave like animals, TNTF? If you want to write vapid prejudice, have the decency to fucking own it.

Rather, we are all animals, TNTD - you, me, every human being that's ever lived.

And you believe that your God made these animals, created them according to a plan, and that your God declared them 'good'.

So the consequence of your belief is that animals eating their young, masturbating and defecating in front of each other... all are designed and implemented by the ineffable Creator of the universe.

Or do you want your cake and eat it? Cherrypick the good bits and declare those designed by God, then declare all the other stuff what... 'fallen'?

Prior to original sin, do you imagine animals went off to hide to take a shit, TNTD?

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems like you don't want to address the fact that thousands of species have been observed engaging in homosexual behavior. It's as natural as sticking your cock where your proclivity resides.



thenexttodie wrote:I was just pointing out the fact that I am Christian for no particular reason other than reminding everyone that I am Christian(I tend to do this from time to time.)


With respect, I find that highly questionable. It's easy to toss a label out, but when the contents don't match the label, the simplest explanation is false advertising.



thenexttodie wrote:Would God be less angry at a non-Christian for committing suicide? I can't think of how to answer this right now. How is this important?


None of it's important, TNTD - we're talking about a fairy tale. However, that fairy tale motivates your beliefs and is at the root of many justifications you use for your positions. As such, when I spot an inconsistency or contradiction, I want to poke at it to find out what's underlying it.

My position is simple: if you subscribe to a religion, then that religion's proscriptions apply to you - but they don't apply to those not subscribing to that religion. Ergo, you can tell Christians that committing suicide is wrong because they buy into your beliefs, but to then try to impel non-Christians to adhere to your belief system's proscriptions is a small step away from theocracy.



thenexttodie wrote:
Sparhafoc wrote: Following this notion, would God also be angry with you if you drove poorly, crashed your car, and killed yourself. Albeit an unintentional result, you still personally created the circumstances which lead to your death.


No.


So it's literally just intent?

So if I drive at 150 miles an hour with my eyes closed, fully intent on not crashing but end up dying, then it's hunky dory with God who wouldn't consider it a morally equivalent to suicide?

How very odd your belief system is when you poke at it.



thenexttodie wrote:You were a Christian? Why did you decide to become a Christian back then? (Sorry to answer your question with more questions)


I didn't 'decide' - I was raised sort-of-Christian like most people in the UK at that time. I went to Sunday School when I was a kid. I sang in the local church's choir. My mum is a sort-of-believer, and my dad is a non-believer.

I didn't decide to become a Christian, but studying the Bible ensured I had no further interest in calling myself one. It took a few more years before I stopped believing that all life was created by a magical entity when I started studying human evolution and the belief systems of other cultures.



thenexttodie wrote:That's all I have Sparhafoc, though I did read the rest of your post. Sounds like you have an interesting life. I hope everything goes well with you.


And for you, cheers. Wie lange haben sie in deutschland gelebt?
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
กบในกะลาครอบ
Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:52 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Sparhafoc wrote: Wie lange haben sie in deutschland gelebt?


Ich vergessan. Not long enough to feel that wearing brown shoes, yellow pants with a red shirt is in anyway fashionable. But I love Germany.

Thank you. I disagree with you but I feel your last post makes things clear enough to where a reply is really not needed. Probably many of the things we talked about will eventually be continued in other threads.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:54 pm
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