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Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

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Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?
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Bernhard.visscherPosts: 1099Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:15 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Your missing the point.

Atheists experience a higher rate of suicides.

The question is why do you think those reasonable atheists kill themselves?
Atheism will never posses the knowledge God does not exist. Bernhard visscher
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:49 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2956Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Your missing the point.

Atheists experience a higher rate of suicides.

The question is why do you think those reasonable atheists kill themselves?

I've already explained this to you.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:56 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2561Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Your missing the point.

Atheists experience a higher rate of suicides.

The question is why do you think those reasonable atheists kill themselves?



Mod Note:

When Dragan Glas' godlike patience isn't enough, you know it's bad.

It is clear that you're not here to listen, but to troll and be petulant. I can honestly not tell if it's just stupidity, or faith-induced blindness to reason. Probably a bit of both. A lot of both.

I pity the children in your educational care, and hope you behave very, very differently to them than you have here.

You are now banned for the duration of... well, until I forget your sorry existence. Shouldn't be much more than a month maybe, once all your topics and posts drizzle out of eyesight on the actives list.

Enjoy!
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:21 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 776Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

As a reply to the original question; Yes, sometimes it is.
Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:36 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2956Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Greetings,

I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression, Gnug - I wasn't losing patience with Bernhard.

Perhaps I should have repeated what I'd said in the relevant post.

In other words, they have fewer and/or weaker stabilizing social ties.

Humans are social animals - we're literally hard-wired for culture, for social interaction.

Having lost links to family, and religious communities (their church), they are more prone to psychological stress, including depression. Social bonds with friends don't provide as much psychological support as having family. That's why losing one's parents is stressful - we realize, and feel that, we're "on our own".

It should be noted that we are all prone to depression due to how our brain's biochemistry works - it's relatively easy to become depressed; the good thing is, it's relatively easy to recover. The main problem being that people can do a lot of self-harm, including suicide, when they are suffering from the most chronic form; clinical depression.

As I''ve said before, Bernhard, your claim seems to be based on a "theists are better/more moral than atheists" approach, which doesn't hold water.

I mentioned that I knew of Christians who'd committed suicide. I realize that this is anecdotal but a individual who I knew through work committed suicide - he was married with children. I - and no-one else, including his family - understood why he took his own life. He was Protestant.

The reasons why people take their life are many, and often unidentifiable - all it needs is for them to be particularly depressed by *something* and/or act on a sudden impulse to kill themselves.

Again, an anecdote.

A teen drug addict in the UK was eating chips at the side of the road with friends, when he suddenly threw himself in front of a bus. He wasn't high at the time. His friends couldn't understand what happened. A possible explanation is that, being an addict, and believing he'd never escape addiction, he felt a moment of hopelessness, and acted on a impulse to kill himself.

This is my own explanation - perhaps I'm wrong.

As I said earlier, it's very difficult to know why people kill themselves. There are some indicators known to be associated with suicidal tendencies - youth, being single, not having children; all strong social bonds - including, of course, having family to lean on - and even then they don't always protect people from suicidal tendencies, as my work colleague's suicide shows.

The idea that it's "because they're atheist" is simplistic, and - like most simplistic explanations - wrong.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Last edited by Dragan Glas on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:10 pm
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2561Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

I apologize if I gave you the wrong impression, Gnug - I wasn't losing patience with Bernhard.

[...]



Well, it was in reference to you saying you'd already explained it to him. But really, it was more my patience that had run out.

This was going nowhere. He was clearly infested with Faithitis, and didn't seem at all interested in listening or hearing.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:25 pm
MarsCydoniaUser avatarPosts: 838Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:15 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

I did not have the time to comment in the past few days but it isn't the reason I stayed away from this particular thread. It is because despite how the title was worded, this thread had actually nothing to do with it.

With a title like Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?, one would think that the discussion would circle around the acceptability of suicide such as in cases of severe depression or in cases of terminal illnesses.

But this hasn't been discussed at all, least of all by the author of the thread himself.

Rather it seems the title was just a way for Bernhard-the-slavery-apologist to take a shot at atheists the likes of "You atheists sure do kill yourselves a lot".

A shot and actually nothing more because Dragan Glas actually did discuss Bernhard-the-slavery-apologist's shot by discussing societal factors relevant to the issue. But what did Bernhard-the-slavery-apologist do? He ignored Dragan Glas' points, either willfully or out of stupidy, to take another shot (with one of these shots containing factually false statements).

Even if we ignore the topic of slavery, he shouldn't have to wonder why decent people find him vile.
"Slavery is morally ok" -
"I don't know how the burden of proof works in the mind of atheists but I don't have to prove my claims" -
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Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:33 pm
leroyPosts: 1772Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Your missing the point.

Atheists experience a higher rate of suicides.

The question is why do you think those reasonable atheists kill themselves?



I'll say that you should look each case individually, there is nothing intrinsic in atheism that promotes suicide.



I don't know if your statistics are correct, but if atheists are indeed more likely to commit suicide than Christians, I would atribute that fact, to the fact that Christians have an extra layer of confort during hard times.


we all (well most of us) have family, friends, jobs, goals, and many other things that motivates us even during hard times, Christians have all that + God, so if family, friends, jobs, goals don't motivate you and are not good enough to prevent you from committing suicide, Christians still have a chance to find confort and motivation in God.



this would explain why atheist are more likely to commit suicide, and this would be true regardless if God is real or just a placebo.




but in any case, this is at best a curios fact, this in no way counts as evidence for God
"events with a zero probability happen all the time"
Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:21 pm
Steelmage99Posts: 171Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:43 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

leroy wrote:
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Your missing the point.

Atheists experience a higher rate of suicides.

The question is why do you think those reasonable atheists kill themselves?



I'll say that you should look each case individually, there is nothing intrinsic in atheism that promotes suicide.



I don't know if your statistics are correct, but if atheists are indeed more likely to commit suicide than Christians, I would atribute that fact, to the fact that Christians have an extra layer of confort during hard times.


we all (well most of us) have family, friends, jobs, goals, and many other things that motivates us even during hard times, Christians have all that + God, so if family, friends, jobs, goals don't motivate you and are not good enough to prevent you from committing suicide, Christians still have a chance to find confort and motivation in God.



this would explain why atheist are more likely to commit suicide, and this would be true regardless if God is real or just a placebo.




but in any case, this is at best a curios fact, this in no way counts as evidence for God


Once in a while you come off as downright reasonable, leroy.

Good on ya.
Blunder that theists make all the time;

Pretending to know what other people think.
Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:19 pm
Sparhafoc
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Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

MarsCydonia wrote: But what did Bernhard-the-slavery-apologist do? He ignored Dragan Glas' points, either willfully or out of stupidy, to take another shot (with one of these shots containing factually false statements).



False dichotomy.

He ignored Dragan Glas' points willfully and stupidly! ;)
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
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Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:38 pm
leroyPosts: 1772Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Steelmage99 wrote:Once in a while you come off as downright reasonable, leroy.

Good on ya.



I make reasonable comments in this forum all the time, the only difference is that sometimes I say things that you personally don't like or that conflict with your world view.
"events with a zero probability happen all the time"
Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:20 pm
MarsCydoniaUser avatarPosts: 838Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:15 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

leroy wrote:I make reasonable comments in this forum all the time, the only difference is that sometimes I say things that you personally don't like or that conflict with your world view.

You may keep repeating that to convince yourself but it will not convince us.
"Slavery is morally ok" -
"I don't know how the burden of proof works in the mind of atheists but I don't have to prove my claims" -
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Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:20 pm
Sparhafoc
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Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

MarsCydonia wrote:
leroy wrote:*masturbatory noises*.


You may keep repeating that to convince yourself but it will not convince us.


LEROY enjoys the pretense that he's the judge, jury and executioner. Shame that such behavior makes other people think he's a turd. I am glad I don't understand the mind-set that would have someone obsessively spend time with people they possess nothing but hatred and contempt for. It's a wasted life on so many levels.
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
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Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:22 pm
Bango SkankPosts: 177Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Fact: my roommate blew his head off in my house was an atheist.


I seriously hope you didn't have a role in his suicide. The filth you spill about atheists can have an affect to an atheist if he is already depressed. I remember you linking a video from antiatheist youtube channel where in highly upvoted comments many said that atheists are worthless and should kill themselves.

I'm myself infact depressed often and sometimes suicidal and i can tell you that when i used to interact with one deeply religious guy, it made me feel even shittier of myself. Deeply religious people seem to radiate "negative energy".

About suicide and atheism. Just a thought, but there is a study from year 2013 that showed atheists to be more intelligent than religious people. I've also read that highly intelligent persons tends to have more mental disorders. So maybe thats one explanation, but i havent researched that deeply so guys can correct if i'm completely wrong on this.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:27 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Dragan Glas wrote:Missing the point.

A history of depression-related mental health issues associated with suicidal tendencies is the deciding factor - not that the individuals with higher life-time suicide attempts in this study happen to be atheist.

As I already pointed out - and as is pointed out in the study - suicide tends to be more prevalent in youth.

The main reasons being that they are less emotionally stable, less likely to be in a stable relationship, such as marriage; nor have children.


How about this, Dragan Glas. Tell us where an emotionally unstable teenager is more likely to get the idea that he has a right to kill himself, provided the opportunity of visiting either

A: this forum

B: Church
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:28 pm
MarsCydoniaUser avatarPosts: 838Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 4:15 pm

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

thenexttodie wrote:How about this, Dragan Glas. Tell us where an emotionally unstable teenager is more likely to get the idea that he has a right to kill himself, provided the opportunity of visiting either

A: this forum

B: Church

Easy question:

Church.
"Slavery is morally ok" -
"I don't know how the burden of proof works in the mind of atheists but I don't have to prove my claims" -
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Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:47 pm
Sparhafoc
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Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

thenexttodie wrote:How about this, Dragan Glas. Tell us where an emotionally unstable teenager is more likely to get the idea that he has a right to kill himself, provided the opportunity of visiting either

A: this forum

B: Church



A bizarre dichotomy.

This forum is a specific location, and has never, insofar as I am aware, ever declared that killing oneself is a 'right'.

Church, on the other hand, encompasses the hundreds of thousands of congregations of all manner of Christian sects, including those who are racist, white-supremacist ass-hats, including those who think that albinos are magical, and those who think that men can have multiple wives.

So on the one hand, we have a very specific and finite example which does not contain anything like you suggested, and on the other we have a vast, complex, and disparate set of unknowable entities which operate as much against each other as they operate under shared positions. I know very well, for example, the hatred that Catholics face from Protestants in the US, so are you going to declare that ALL Christians are X, or that no Christian church condones suicide/euthanasia under any circumstance?

I'll save my citations for your answer.
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
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Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:53 am
thenexttodiePosts: 799Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

Bango Skank wrote:
I seriously hope you didn't have a role in his suicide. The filth you spill about atheists can have an affect to an atheist if he is already depressed. I remember you linking a video from antiatheist youtube channel where in highly upvoted comments many said that atheists are worthless and should kill themselves.

I'm myself infact depressed often and sometimes suicidal and i can tell you that when i used to interact with one deeply religious guy, it made me feel even shittier of myself. Deeply religious people seem to radiate "negative energy".


Yeah right. Homosexuals used say that the reason so many of them commit suicide was because they were ostracized from society. Npw today if a Christian man does not want to bake you a gay wedding cake, he could face a 500$ a day fine. So don't give me this "play the victim" bullshit. Because you have won. But you still kill yourselves at a rate 2-4 times higher than heterosexuals. And you get and spread AIDS at a phenominal rate. How much money has been spent on keeping homosexuals from dying from AIDS that could have been spent on..I dunno..keeping little innocent babies from dying of some fucked up disease but instead we spent all of these billions of dollars to keep gay men alive. You are also way more likely to use drugs and way way way more likely to have syphilis or some other fucked up disease. So when you get hurt and people come to help you and your bleeding all over the place, they have a far greater chance of being infected with something by you by coming in contact with your blood.


And you know this is all true.

I think most of the "negative energy" you feel is probably coming from inside yourself. You are the only one who has the power to say you are not going to live like this any more and that you are not going to support this. Stop playing the victim and stop lying to yourself.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:10 am
CollecemallPosts: 348Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:53 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

thenexttodie wrote:
Yeah right. Homosexuals used say that the reason so many of them commit suicide was because they were ostracized from society. Npw today if a Christian man does not want to bake you a gay wedding cake, he could face a 500$ a day fine. So don't give me this "play the victim" bullshit. Because you have won. But you still kill yourselves at a rate 2-4 times higher than heterosexuals. And you get and spread AIDS at a phenominal rate. How much money has been spent on keeping homosexuals from dying from AIDS that could have been spent on..I dunno..keeping little innocent babies from dying of some fucked up disease but instead we spent all of these billions of dollars to keep gay men alive. You are also way more likely to use drugs and way way way more likely to have syphilis or some other fucked up disease. So when you get hurt and people come to help you and your bleeding all over the place, they have a far greater chance of being infected with something by you by coming in contact with your blood.


And you know this is all true.

I think most of the "negative energy" you feel is probably coming from inside yourself. You are the only one who has the power to say you are not going to live like this any more and that you are not going to support this. Stop playing the victim and stop lying to yourself.


Which is it? EIther gays aren't ostracized or people are denying them basic services other people get without issue. Like wedding cakes.You can't have it both ways. What I know as true is you're one hate filled human. Maybe talk to the church that has fought tooth and nail to stop condom dispersal in places like Africa where rates are astronomical AMONG STRAIGHT PEOPLE. Take your god and his followers and gtfo of here with your hateful bullshit.
"Every man is a creature of the age in which he lives, and few are able to raise themselves above the ideas of their time."
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ~~Voltaire
Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:12 am
Sparhafoc
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Posts: 1544Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: Suicide. Is it reasonable to kill yourself?

thenexttodie wrote:
Bango Skank wrote:
I seriously hope you didn't have a role in his suicide. The filth you spill about atheists can have an affect to an atheist if he is already depressed. I remember you linking a video from antiatheist youtube channel where in highly upvoted comments many said that atheists are worthless and should kill themselves.

I'm myself infact depressed often and sometimes suicidal and i can tell you that when i used to interact with one deeply religious guy, it made me feel even shittier of myself. Deeply religious people seem to radiate "negative energy".


Yeah right. Homosexuals used say that the reason so many of them commit suicide was because they were ostracized from society. Npw today if a Christian man does not want to bake you a gay wedding cake, he could face a 500$ a day fine. So don't give me this "play the victim" bullshit. Because you have won. But you still kill yourselves at a rate 2-4 times higher than heterosexuals. And you get and spread AIDS at a phenominal rate. How much money has been spent on keeping homosexuals from dying from AIDS that could have been spent on..I dunno..keeping little innocent babies from dying of some fucked up disease but instead we spent all of these billions of dollars to keep gay men alive. You are also way more likely to use drugs and way way way more likely to have syphilis or some other fucked up disease. So when you get hurt and people come to help you and your bleeding all over the place, they have a far greater chance of being infected with something by you by coming in contact with your blood.


And you know this is all true.

I think most of the "negative energy" you feel is probably coming from inside yourself. You are the only one who has the power to say you are not going to live like this any more and that you are not going to support this. Stop playing the victim and stop lying to yourself.



I.... TNTD - fuck off somewhere else until you've recovered from whatever it is that's making you act a total fucking ass. I'd say you're better than this, but honestly... there's no way to be worse.

Even if it were true - which it's categorically not - then where the fuck was your empathy while you hated on someone in reply to them explaining how they often feel depressed and sometimes suicidal?

Jesus fucking wept.
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
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Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:22 am
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