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This time from Craig's list

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This time from Craig's list
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AronRaContributorUser avatarPosts: 559Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:47 pm

Post This time from Craig's list

Someone sent me a link to a creationist ranting on craigslist, and I couldn't resist the temptation to reply. That link forces us into an email discussion, and I want these things to be a matter of public record. So I sent him a link to my blog response, but he won't go there. Consequently, I'm going to document our subsequent exchange here, the way I usually do.

Darwin was a racist that is not disputed which was common in those days now the question to you is this when did you see evolution take place?

Darwin was clearly not racist, and yes I do prove that with specific citations in my speech.

I gave a list of dozens of peer reviewed citations of directly-observed and documented incidents of evolution in my video. I also posted that to my blog because I prefer for all these type discussions to be open to the public.


your analogy of Darwin is not correct but when did you see evolution take place

That video was 48 minutes long and you replied in less than two minutes. So you're working from presuppositions of things you do not know. You haven't read his work and you haven't seen mine either. Neither did I use any 'analogies' of Darwin. I simply quoted the man straight from his own words in both his early and latest works. Darwin spoke in the lingo of his contemporaries, yes. But he also denied that there was any validity to the concept of distinct human races.

tell us when you saw evolution personally and what you saw

I was a student of paleontology, and I've had a number of transitional species as pets. So the only question is, what would you accept? And would that be concordant with the laws by which evolution has to abide?

First you said that "not one person has seen any evolution take place", but you were wrong about that. Dozens of research teams have submitted their findings to peer reviewed citations, proving you wrong. But you won't admit your error there. Instead you move the goal posts so that I have to show you what I have seen personally. First you should acknowledge your originally error before you move the goal posts again.


when did you see some evolution

Before I tell you what I've 'personally' seen, you'll have to tell me what you'll accept. We don't want any more moving goal posts, remember?

You've already said that "not one person has seen any evolution take place", but you were wrong about that. Dozens of research teams have submitted their findings to peer reviewed journals, proving you wrong. So you'll first admit your error there, then tell me what you would accept, and we'll see if that is concordant with the laws of evolution. Because you're not going to have me arguing me straw-man fallacies either.

See, science has something creationism doesn't. It's called accountability. When a scientist makes an assertion not backed by evidence, someone will call him out as a fraud. Because it is dishonest to assert as fact that which is not evidently true. However that is what all religions consistently do, They pretend to have a double-standard wherein they get to regard unsupported assertions as though they were absolute truth.

In this conversation though, there will be no double-standard. So when you say things that have already been proven false, and the proof refuting has already been presented, you will be held accountable and will be accepted to admit and correct your error before moving on. So do so.


when did you see evolution take place


Once again, before I tell you what I've 'personally' seen, you'll have to tell me what you'll accept. We don't want any more moving goal posts, remember?

You've already said that "not one person has seen any evolution take place", but you were wrong about that. Dozens of research teams have submitted their findings to peer reviewed journals, proving you wrong. So you'll first have to admit your error there, then tell me what you would accept, and we'll see if that is concordant with the laws of evolution. Because you're not going to have me arguing me straw-man fallacies either.


what other evolution is there but one species turning into another species

If you're going to pretend to criticize one of the best supported theories in science, it would be a good idea to know something about it first. The very least you should know is what it is. I would bet that you can't even define evolution. As I have already shown, and will continue to show, evolution is an inescapable fact of population genetics which is traceable, verifiable, and observable in many ways.

One species 'turning into' another species is anagenesis. However most evolution is cladogenesis, where the parent species remains but diverges into two or more. Both of these are examples of macroevolution, variation at the species level and above, and that is what the dozens of citations I gave you relate to. But there are hundreds of examples of microevolution too, that being variation within species and not yet between them.

So among the many errors in your initial post were when you said this: "The question is when has anyone ever seen Evolution take place? When you can answer that question in a visual context then there would be no question. We have yet to see anyone one step forth and do so.

That challenge has been answered many times over, not just with easily dismissible personal anecdotes, but with publicly juried, peer-reviewed and testable scientific studies. It wasn't just one person but dozens of teams of independent scientists. Where you said they haven't seen "any" evolution happening, they've actually seen quite a lot of it at different levels. Creationists commonly assert that macroevolution has never been observed, and couldn't be, but it has been observed and academically documented so many times that the occurrences fall into four different category types, allopatric, periopatric, parapatric, and sympatric.

So now that you have citations to review which refute your original position, are you prepared to correct your claim that "not one person has seen any evolution take place"?


tell us when you saw some evolution

Obviously this creationist refuses to admit when he has been proven wrong. What a surprise.
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:13 pm
AronRaContributorUser avatarPosts: 559Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:47 pm

Post Re: This time from Craig's list

If you don't even know what you're talking about, then how could my answer make sense to you? You should also know that I'm archiving this exchange in a public forum for posterity.
[link to this thread provided]

So now that you have citations to review which refute your original position, are you prepared to correct your claim that "not one person has seen any evolution take place"? Once you have corrected your error there, and then state what it is that you will accept from me, and that it is not a straw-man fallacy, then we will continue.
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:16 pm
AronRaContributorUser avatarPosts: 559Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:47 pm

Post Re: This time from Craig's list

I got not a peep out of that guy since. What a completely dishonest #∞©&.
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." - Friedrich Nietzsche.
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." - Mark Twain
Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:35 pm
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3473Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: This time from Craig's list

AronRa wrote:I got not a peep out of that guy since. What a completely dishonest #∞©&.


Obvious troll is obvious.
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:26 pm
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hackenslashLime TordUser avatarPosts: 2439Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:43 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: This time from Craig's list

I got as far as 'evolution says a species turned into a whole nother one'.

Numpty.
Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:47 am
malicious_blokeUser avatarPosts: 305Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:12 pmLocation: Proper Westcountry Gender: Male

Post Re: This time from Craig's list

seems to me you would have got further talking to cleverbot.

This one just seems like a creotard action figure that spouts a slogan when you pull the cord on his back
[sarcasm ][/sarcasm ]

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it
Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:46 pm
FrengerBloggerUser avatarPosts: 831Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 pmLocation: Derby, UK Gender: Male

Post Re: This time from Craig's list

Your patience is first rate, I would have given up at "Hello, Darwin was racist".
Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:56 pm
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