Page 1 of 27

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:09 am
by Bango Skank
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life


Therefore creationism debunked.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:50 am
by Dragan Glas
Greetings,

Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life

And your scientific evidence for this "science law"?

Kindest regards,

James

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:56 am
by Rumraket
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life

Here is another law, just as well supported (in fact it's the same evidence for both laws): All life is made of cells, which are made of atoms.

See, now your not-even-an-argument has been completely undermined.

If you deny that all life is made of cells which are made of atoms, you are violating the inductive principle of total evidence.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:54 am
by Sparhafoc
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life



What is life, Bernhard?

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:55 pm
by Nesslig20
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life


Then life doesn't have an origin. Think about it.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:26 pm
by Sparhafoc
Bernhard.visscher wrote:The origin of life is eternal.

Think about it


Deepak Chopra deepity.

Think about it.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:20 pm
by Rumraket
Bernhard.visscher wrote:The origin of life is eternal.

Think about it

Whatever life came from is made of atoms. Because cells made of atoms only come from cells made of atoms.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:57 am
by leroy
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life

And your scientific evidence for this "science law"?

[/quote]


Bernhard, you don't understand the rules of the forum.


Atheist don't have to prove anything, they can simply affirm that there is an unknown natural mechanism that can create life without preexisting life,

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:39 am
by Rumraket
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Life arises from life. Never been disproved and only evidence has been found for... Therefore law.

Life is made of cells which are made of atoms. Never been disproved and only evidence has been found for... Therefore law.

Re: Science Law - Life Comes From Life

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:38 am
by Gnug215
Mod note:

Topic split, as requested.



Hmm, not sure if I got all the posts, but these are the ones I could select.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:59 am
by Sparhafoc
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Life arises from life. Never been disproved and only evidence has been found for... Therefore law.



Not how laws works; laws are descriptions of the relationships between two quantities in a natural phenomenon.

https://www.livescience.com/21457-what- ... c-law.html

In general, a scientific law is the description of an observed phenomenon. It doesn't explain why the phenomenon exists or what causes it. The explanation of a phenomenon is called a scientific theory. It is a misconception that theories turn into laws with enough research.



The words 'life arises from life' are a hypothesis.

You don't get to declare 'never been disproved' until you go and try to falsify it.

If you can't falsify it, then other people would try to.

These other attempts at falsification would lead to a network of hypotheses surrounding the contention.

Then, only then, might it graduate to a theory, because that's the highest level of explanatory framework in science.


Of course, your claim is right only from today's perspective where life reproduces and the world's biomes are full of life.

But you cannot claim it is so for eternity because a) you'd need evidence and b) it's illogical.

For example, go back past 4.5 billion years ago, and there was no planet. So life couldn't have been there prior to the planet being there, so either life originated there or it was introduced from outside. If it was introduced from outside, then all you've done is shuffle one step towards an infinite regression.

Re: Science Law - Life Comes From Life

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:03 am
by Rumraket
Gnug215 wrote:Mod note:

Topic split, as requested.



Hmm, not sure if I got all the posts, but these are the ones I could select.

You didn't get the majority of the posts. And the argument about the big bang is continuing in the other thread.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:15 pm
by Dragan Glas
Greetings,

leroy wrote:Bernhard, you don't understand the rules of the forum

The rules are simple: any positive claim should be supported with testable evidence..

Bernhard made a positive claim - it's up to him to provide the testable evidence for that positive claim.

leroy wrote:Atheist don't have to prove anything, they can simply affirm that there is an unknown natural mechanism that can create life without preexisting life,

It's called the laws of chemistry, leroy.

Biochemistry - "the chemistry of life" - is a sub-set of chemistry: it is the chemistry of carbon.

The transition from inorganic to organic chemistry occurs when one atom of hydrogen, and one atom of carbon, form a chemical bond called the hydro-carbon bond.

At which point you're at the foot of the mountain that leads to the first cell.

Life - abiogenesis - occurs somewhere on the path up the mountain.

It's that simple.

Kindest regards,

James

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:39 pm
by MarsCydonia
Bango Skank wrote:
Bernhard.visscher wrote:Science law.... life comes from life


Therefore creationism debunked.

My comment wasn't moved so I'll point this out here again:
If "life comes from life" is an unviolable scientific law then:
1. This disproves god created life.
or
2. Science is discarded and irrelevant for this "scientific law".

It's a loss-loss scenario for those who spout it. Congratulations.

Re: Science Law - Life Comes From Life

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:12 pm
by leroy
As Rumraket the ultimate answer is "we don't know",


but imagine that you are told that there are 2 parallel universes (this universe and some other universe that may or may not have different laws) and you are told that in one of these universes life was created naturally and in the other life was created by an intelligent designer.

given this scenario you are asked to provide your best guess.


in what universe do we live?

A) the universe where life had a natural origin?

B the universe where life was designed?


given this scenario (hypothetical of course) I would say that B is more likely to be true,


I am willing to defend this position, only against people who affirm that A.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:17 pm
by leroy
MarsCydonia wrote:[My comment wasn't moved so I'll point this out here again:
If "life comes from life" is an unviolable scientific law then:
1. This disproves god created life.
or
2. Science is discarded and irrelevant for this "scientific law".

It's a loss-loss scenario for those who spout it. Congratulations.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

wow the fact that you repeated that stupid comment in this new thread indicates that you honestly think that you are making a good point.


Miracles are suppose to disobey scientific laws, the point is that the only way to have life from none life is if you disobey a natural law (miracle), if you grant this law, it would imply that life had a miraculous origin.

if you don't grant this law, then you have a to carry heavy burden proof and explain why things where different 4.5B years ago.....

Re: Science Law - Life Comes From Life

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:24 pm
by Visaki
leroy wrote:As Rumraket the ultimate answer is "we don't know",

but imagine that you are told that there are 2 parallel universes (this universe and some other universe that may or may not have different laws) and you are told that in one of these universes life was created naturally and in the other life was created by an intelligent designer.

given this scenario you are asked to provide your best guess.

in what universe do we live?

A) the universe where life had a natural origin?

B the universe where life was designed?

given this scenario (hypothetical of course) I would say that B is more likely to be true,

I am willing to defend this position, only against people who affirm that A.

So why should we care about this make believe cosmos that you have constructed? What is the point? Oh I see, you think you are stacking the odds at your favor. Got it.

Re: Science Law - Life Comes From Life

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:28 pm
by Sparhafoc
leroy wrote:As Rumraket the ultimate answer is "we don't know",


but imagine that you are told that there are 2 parallel universes (this universe and some other universe that may or may not have different laws) and you are told that in one of these universes life was created naturally and in the other life was created by an intelligent designer.

given this scenario you are asked to provide your best guess.


in what universe do we live?

A) the universe where life had a natural origin?

B the universe where life was designed?


given this scenario (hypothetical of course) I would say that B is more likely to be true,


I am willing to defend this position, only against people who affirm that A.



Learn how discussions work.

Pro-tip - there are not TWO affirmative positions in a discussion.

Until you comprehend this, it's pigeon-chess.

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:29 pm
by MarsCydonia
leroy wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

wow the fact that you repeated that stupid comment in this new thread indicates that you honestly think that you are making a good point.

Miracles are suppose to disobey scientific laws, the point is that the only way to have life from none life is if you disobey a natural law (miracle), if you grant this law, it would imply that life had a miraculous origin.

if you don't grant this law, then you have a to carry heavy burden proof and explain why things where different 4.5B years ago.....

Wow, Leroy just admitted that this "scientific law" is violable.

So Bernard, see, Leroy is a christian and just admitted that life can come from non-life (he's just too stupid to realize it).

Re: Mindboggling result of Ribosomal RNA sequence analysis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:34 pm
by Sparhafoc
leroy wrote:Miracles are suppose to disobey scientific laws, the point is that the only way to have life from none life is if you disobey a natural law (miracle), if you grant this law, it would imply that life had a miraculous origin.

if you don't grant this law, then you have a to carry heavy burden proof and explain why things where different 4.5B years ago.....



Errr no. You are wrong and garbled in every instance.

Life is not some magical thing as per your argument would require.

It is how certain types of molecules behave in a specific circumstance.

Life is a behavior of those molecules, not a distinct quantity that exists independently of those molecules. Show me wrong by pointing to a single thing in the universe which is alive without molecules.

Finally, laws are DESCRIPTIONS not PRESCRIPTIONS.

The fact that you argue contrarily to this shows how little you comprehend.

The fact that you have been educated about this a dozen times in the past and still continue to make this mistake is why Creationism is an intellectual recidivism.