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Is the Pope a Christian?

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Is the Pope a Christian?
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thenexttodiePosts: 729Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Is the Pope a Christian?

Maybe someone can suggested a better subject title.
Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:46 pm
SpecialFrogUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:13 pmLocation: Great White North Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

thenexttodie wrote:Maybe someone can suggested a better subject title.


It seems fine. And the answer is clearly, "yes".

Comparative religion generally takes the view that a religion is defined not only by its scripture but also by the behaviour of its followers. To an extent, "Christianity" is the religion practised by people who call themselves Christian.

All religious scripture requires interpretation and unless one group can prove that a god exists and that this god endorses only their version of a religion, it's impossible to say who is right with any degree of authority.

If you call yourself a Christian you probably are one, particularly if other Christians consider you to be one.

The Pope considers himself Christian. The largest single group of Christians considers the Pope to be Christian.

He is Christian.

If you disagree, please give your criteria for deciding who is and is not Christian.

Edit: while the title is fine, should this be in the Religion section? I doubt philosophy will be involved.
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:00 am
CollecemallPosts: 331Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:53 am

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

I've encountered a great number of people who don't consider Catholics Christians. Granted these are fundies that I find myself surrounded by due to geography. It doesn't matter that said fundies are clueless about their own beliefs they know Catholics aren't really Christians.
"Every man is a creature of the age in which he lives, and few are able to raise themselves above the ideas of their time."
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:18 am
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4998Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

The Pope is a Christian, Ken Ham is a Christian, Joseph Smith was a Christian. Just like Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh, and Henry Tudor.
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:11 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3241Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

:facepalm:

he_who_is_nobody wrote:Well, since you have not given us an objective criterion to distinguish between Real ChristianTM and fake chriustians, I am going to say the pope is a Real ChristianTM. Again, I am an outsider looking into this. Without an objective criterion, what else should I conclude?


Perhaps if you started addressing the points we are making, instead of running from the aguments, this discussion could move forward. Now stop acting dumb.
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:12 am
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hackenslashLime TordUser avatarPosts: 2309Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:43 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

he_who_is_nobody wrote: :facepalm:

Perhaps if you started addressing the points we are making, instead of running from the aguments, this discussion could move forward. Now stop acting dumb.


This.
Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:31 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 718Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Prolescum wrote:The Pope is a Christian, Ken Ham is a Christian, Joseph Smith was a Christian. Just like Timothy McVeigh, David Koresh, and Henry Tudor.

It's much easier, methinks, to list people who are christian than come up with a good defenition of a christian.

Personally my defenition of a christian is probably the broadest possible; a person who believes in the existance of Biblical God, in the existance of at least somewhat divine Jesus who was sacreficed to benefit the mankind and that the Bible reveals something about the two characters and World that is worthwhile. I would have said that I take peoples word that they are christians, but I've encountered a few who don't believe in any divine aspect of Jesus, even in the purpose of his actions, don't believe that the Bible is in anyway special and just barely believe in a theistic god. Hell, I've even met one that claimed to a christian while not believing that God existed! Of course my defenition might be bad (tough I don't think it can be wrong since there doesn't seem to be one, broadle accepted defenition for christian) but then again I'm not really interested in claiming that the Pope is not christian.

Totally different question if if christians are jews.
Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:23 pm
ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 4998Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Certainly Visaki, but the reason for my brief list was that these people are or were at some point not considered Christians by other groups of Christians despite fitting any generic definition of Christians one can come up with.

Of course, the question itself is utterly risible anyway. Typical protestant bullshit, really.
if constructive debate is allowed to progress, better ideas will ultimately supplant worse ideas.

Comment is free, but facts are sacred
Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:36 pm
lilmaromeUser avatarPosts: 31Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:10 pmLocation: Sweden Gender: Female

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Visaki wrote:Hell, I've even met one that claimed to a christian while not believing that God existed!


Well there is something called Christian atheism.
"If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them..." -Marcus Aurelius
Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:37 am
thenexttodiePosts: 729Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.


What do you mean?
Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:31 pm
WarKChat ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 1176Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:59 am Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

thenexttodie wrote:
SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.


What do you mean?


He probably meant that you just make shit up as you go along. That's why there's so many diverging version of all religions. There's no single "truth" in any of the holy books. People just take stuff from them and make it mean what they want, they also dismiss other stuff they don't agree with.

Do you play around with snakes and drink poison just like some Christians that found this in the bible? Whether you answer yes or not is a matter of your interpretation of the text, others interpret it differently. But of course you're always the one who gets things right, eh? All those other Christians aren't really Christians, right?
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Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:38 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 729Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.


thenexttodie wrote:What do you mean?


WarK wrote:He probably meant that you just make shit up as you go along.
No, I don't think he meant this. But anyway..


WarK wrote:That's why there's so many diverging version of all religions. There's no single "truth" in any of the holy books. People just take stuff from them and make it mean what they want, they also dismiss other stuff they don't agree with.


Well, God chose to communicate with us in part through the Bible. You can come up with any reason not to believe it. There are people who even today feel it worth while to spend a significant amount of time trying prove that world is flat. Defense lawyers obviously don't only defend innocent people. But at least in the US (where we have the highest paid lawyers in the world) these lawyers would say it is necessary to instill lies in the minds of the jurors to insure our justice system is working properly. If you run a daycare service and the parents of 5 year old girl tells you that she is transgenderd then you must pretend shes a boy. Which person who holds any significant office is not a great liar? I could on and on.

So, it pretty easy for you to say "Duuhh geee well the bible well the bible can't be true because it's interpertated" Or something dumb like that and everyone will pat you and the back and tell you how smart you are. Of course they will. Know what I mean?

I am telling you it's real. It's all real. God is real and his son died for you. I'm not lying to you bro. Some people don't care. Maybe you want to be gay and suck dicks and then try to adopt some poor dying african kid so you can pretend you serve some function beneficial to society and that you are normal. Maybe you would rather say "fuck god" and be an abortionist and stick vaccum hoses up women and suck their babies out. Then when some else tells you hey you shouldn't do stuff like that tell them that bible is all up to interpretation.
Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:31 am
he_who_is_nobodyBloggerUser avatarPosts: 3241Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:36 amLocation: Albuquerque, New Mexico Gender: Male

Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

thenexttodie wrote:
SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.


thenexttodie wrote:What do you mean?


WarK wrote:He probably meant that you just make shit up as you go along.
No, I don't think he meant this. But anyway..


WarK wrote:That's why there's so many diverging version of all religions. There's no single "truth" in any of the holy books. People just take stuff from them and make it mean what they want, they also dismiss other stuff they don't agree with.


Well, God chose to communicate with us in part through the Bible. You can come up with any reason not to believe it. There are people who even today feel it worth while to spend a significant amount of time trying prove that world is flat. Defense lawyers obviously don't only defend innocent people. But at least in the US (where we have the highest paid lawyers in the world) these lawyers would say it is necessary to instill lies in the minds of the jurors to insure our justice system is working properly. If you run a daycare service and the parents of 5 year old girl tells you that she is transgenderd then you must pretend shes a boy. Which person who holds any significant office is not a great liar? I could on and on.

So, it pretty easy for you to say "Duuhh geee well the bible well the bible can't be true because it's interpertated" Or something dumb like that and everyone will pat you and the back and tell you how smart you are. Of course they will. Know what I mean?

I am telling you it's real. It's all real. God is real and his son died for you. I'm not lying to you bro. Some people don't care. Maybe you want to be gay and suck dicks and then try to adopt some poor dying african kid so you can pretend you serve some function beneficial to society and that you are normal. Maybe you would rather say "fuck god" and be an abortionist and stick vaccum hoses up women and suck their babies out. Then when some else tells you hey you shouldn't do stuff like that tell them that bible is all up to interpretation.


What does any of this have to do with showing that the Pope is not a Christian? We are all still waiting for that objective criterion. Remember how Dragan Glas created one and showed you were not a Christian? That is what we are looking for. The ball is in your court, thenexttodie.
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Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:50 am
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Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Greetings,

thenexttodie wrote:
SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.


thenexttodie wrote:What do you mean?


WarK wrote:He probably meant that you just make shit up as you go along.
No, I don't think he meant this. But anyway..


WarK wrote:That's why there's so many diverging version of all religions. There's no single "truth" in any of the holy books. People just take stuff from them and make it mean what they want, they also dismiss other stuff they don't agree with.


Well, God chose to communicate with us in part through the Bible. You can come up with any reason not to believe it. There are people who even today feel it worth while to spend a significant amount of time trying prove that world is flat. Defense lawyers obviously don't only defend innocent people. But at least in the US (where we have the highest paid lawyers in the world) these lawyers would say it is necessary to instill lies in the minds of the jurors to insure our justice system is working properly. If you run a daycare service and the parents of 5 year old girl tells you that she is transgenderd then you must pretend shes a boy. Which person who holds any significant office is not a great liar? I could on and on.

So, it pretty easy for you to say "Duuhh geee well the bible well the bible can't be true because it's interpertated" Or something dumb like that and everyone will pat you and the back and tell you how smart you are. Of course they will. Know what I mean?

I am telling you it's real. It's all real. God is real and his son died for you. I'm not lying to you bro. Some people don't care. Maybe you want to be gay and suck dicks and then try to adopt some poor dying african kid so you can pretend you serve some function beneficial to society and that you are normal. Maybe you would rather say "fuck god" and be an abortionist and stick vaccum hoses up women and suck their babies out. Then when some else tells you hey you shouldn't do stuff like that tell them that bible is all up to interpretation.

Everything you've said is premised on the assertion in bold/underlined.

Because you believe this means that you're not lying as such - just misguided.

You have not one iota of proof of this - nevermind proof of a creator-entity.

Like all believers of all the thousands of religions all over the world, you have no proof.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:13 am
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2948Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

thenexttodie wrote:
SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.


thenexttodie wrote:What do you mean?


WarK wrote:He probably meant that you just make shit up as you go along.
No, I don't think he meant this. But anyway..


WarK wrote:That's why there's so many diverging version of all religions. There's no single "truth" in any of the holy books. People just take stuff from them and make it mean what they want, they also dismiss other stuff they don't agree with.


Well, God chose to communicate with us in part through the Bible. You can come up with any reason not to believe it. There are people who even today feel it worth while to spend a significant amount of time trying prove that world is flat. Defense lawyers obviously don't only defend innocent people. But at least in the US (where we have the highest paid lawyers in the world) these lawyers would say it is necessary to instill lies in the minds of the jurors to insure our justice system is working properly. If you run a daycare service and the parents of 5 year old girl tells you that she is transgenderd then you must pretend shes a boy. Which person who holds any significant office is not a great liar? I could on and on.

So, it pretty easy for you to say "Duuhh geee well the bible well the bible can't be true because it's interpertated" Or something dumb like that and everyone will pat you and the back and tell you how smart you are. Of course they will. Know what I mean?

I am telling you it's real. It's all real. God is real and his son died for you. I'm not lying to you bro. Some people don't care. Maybe you want to be gay and suck dicks and then try to adopt some poor dying african kid so you can pretend you serve some function beneficial to society and that you are normal. Maybe you would rather say "fuck god" and be an abortionist and stick vaccum hoses up women and suck their babies out. Then when some else tells you hey you shouldn't do stuff like that tell them that bible is all up to interpretation.


Seems an odd way for an omnipotent being to communicate with us. Writing one book hundreds of years ago and leaving us to work out what it means. All the while he sits and watches without thinking to correct any of the misinterpretations we make.

Here's a list of ways an omnipotent being could convey information to us: he could have us all born knowing of his existence, or able to telepathically contact him unambiguously. He could write 'there is a God' in stars. He could appear before everyone simultaneously and demonstrate how he wants us to live. Yet he chooses to reveal himself in a book that looks like something written by people from a certain era who didn't know very much...

That must seem odd to you, given that God can literally do anything.

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Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:09 am
SpecialFrogUser avatarPosts: 827Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:13 pmLocation: Great White North Gender: Tree

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

thenexttodie wrote:
SpecialFrog wrote:All religious scripture requires interpretation.

What do you mean?

All religious texts contains elements that are meant allegorically and whose meaning is therefore subject to interpretation. For instance, I am sure you agree that in John 10:9 Jesus is not claiming to be a literal door.

Additionally, the intended meaning of many passages is unclear (for a variety of reasons) and it is impossible to read it literally and not apply an existing theological framework to the interpretation.

Are you going to actually engage with the rest of my argument or the issue in general? If not, I may not bother to reply further.
"Life is nothing but an electron looking for a place to rest" -- Albert Szent-Gyrgyi
Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:03 pm
lilmaromeUser avatarPosts: 31Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:10 pmLocation: Sweden Gender: Female

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

thenexttodie wrote:
Well, God chose to communicate with us in part through the Bible. You can come up with any reason not to believe it. There are people who even today feel it worth while to spend a significant amount of time trying prove that world is flat. Defense lawyers obviously don't only defend innocent people. But at least in the US (where we have the highest paid lawyers in the world) these lawyers would say it is necessary to instill lies in the minds of the jurors to insure our justice system is working properly. If you run a daycare service and the parents of 5 year old girl tells you that she is transgenderd then you must pretend shes a boy. Which person who holds any significant office is not a great liar? I could on and on.

So, it pretty easy for you to say "Duuhh geee well the bible well the bible can't be true because it's interpertated" Or something dumb like that and everyone will pat you and the back and tell you how smart you are. Of course they will. Know what I mean?

I am telling you it's real. It's all real. God is real and his son died for you. I'm not lying to you bro. Some people don't care. Maybe you want to be gay and suck dicks and then try to adopt some poor dying african kid so you can pretend you serve some function beneficial to society and that you are normal. Maybe you would rather say "fuck god" and be an abortionist and stick vaccum hoses up women and suck their babies out. Then when some else tells you hey you shouldn't do stuff like that tell them that bible is all up to interpretation.



How offensive can a person become?! Do religious people ever see the beams in their own eyes?
"If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them..." -Marcus Aurelius
Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:20 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Greetings,

lilmarome wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:
Well, God chose to communicate with us in part through the Bible. You can come up with any reason not to believe it. There are people who even today feel it worth while to spend a significant amount of time trying prove that world is flat. Defense lawyers obviously don't only defend innocent people. But at least in the US (where we have the highest paid lawyers in the world) these lawyers would say it is necessary to instill lies in the minds of the jurors to insure our justice system is working properly. If you run a daycare service and the parents of 5 year old girl tells you that she is transgenderd then you must pretend shes a boy. Which person who holds any significant office is not a great liar? I could on and on.

So, it pretty easy for you to say "Duuhh geee well the bible well the bible can't be true because it's interpertated" Or something dumb like that and everyone will pat you and the back and tell you how smart you are. Of course they will. Know what I mean?

I am telling you it's real. It's all real. God is real and his son died for you. I'm not lying to you bro. Some people don't care. Maybe you want to be gay and suck dicks and then try to adopt some poor dying african kid so you can pretend you serve some function beneficial to society and that you are normal. Maybe you would rather say "fuck god" and be an abortionist and stick vaccum hoses up women and suck their babies out. Then when some else tells you hey you shouldn't do stuff like that tell them that bible is all up to interpretation.



How offensive can a person become?! Do religious people ever see the beams in their own eyes?

Does religion make kids less generous?

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:02 am
lilmaromeUser avatarPosts: 31Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:10 pmLocation: Sweden Gender: Female

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Dragan Glas wrote:

Does religion make kids less generous?

Kindest regards,

James


Fool, it's only god-fearing people who can accurately determine what's moral.
"If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them..." -Marcus Aurelius
Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:06 am
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatar
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Posts: 2907Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Is the Pope a Christian?

Greetings,

lilmarome wrote:
Dragan Glas wrote:
Does religion make kids less generous?

Kindest regards,

James


Fool, it's only god-fearing people who can accurately determine what's moral.

Sadly, so it seems.

The article, in conjunction with his last post, brings me back to my earlier one where I indicated how he - like so many "Christians" - casts aspersions on those here, mistaking theists as being moral, and atheists as being amoral.

This is a common misunderstanding.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:39 pm
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