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Re: League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:52 pm
by iamthedinger
ladiesman391 wrote:Try this one:

In front of you are several long fuses. You know they burn for exactly one hour after you light them at one end. The entire fuse does not necessarily burn at a constant speed. For example, it might take five minutes to burn through half the fuse and fifty-five minutes to burn the other half.

With your lighter and using these fuses, how can you measure exactly three-quarters of an hour of time?


How is the other question coming along, 8.8.3.3?




i use a casio g-shock

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:50 pm
by Arcus
Fictionarious wrote:There are three logicians who are able to reason and deduce with perfect accuracy, their names are A, B, and C. They each know this as well.
In a bag there are seven colored stickers. Two yellow, two red, and three green. The logicians know that too.
Each logician reaches into the bag, grabs one sticker and slaps it on his forehead without looking to see what color it is. Any one logician is able to see the stickers on his compatriot's heads, but not the sticker on his own.

Jerry the interrogator asks logician A if he knows what color sticker is definitely not on his forehead.
"No.", A responds.
Jerry asks logician B the same question, and receives the same answer.

Is it possible with this information to deduce the color of any of the logician's stickers?


Is the answer C must be green?
If A looks around and sees two yellows, there is 0% probability he will be yellow, 40% probability he'll be red and 60% probability he'll be green. Therefore B and C must have different colors from each other. If both are yellow, it's the same 0/40/60 combination for R/Y/G, respectively. If B looks around and sees the same, he gets the same outcomes. A and C must therefore have different colors. Logician C will know the colors of A and B, and that his color is the one which neither A nor B has. If A is yellow, C cannot be yellow as B would answer differently. If A is red, C cannot be red because B would again answer differently.

The only possibility left is that C must be green.

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:35 pm
by Private_slim
Try this one, took me 3 hours to do. (I might have been easily distracted by music/yt in this period, not exactly working on it, but still, fucking thing annoyed me SO MUCH)

Who owns the Zebra?

- There are 5 houses
- All the house owners are from different states
- They all have different pets
- One of them owns a Zebra
- All drink different beverages
- They each smoke a different brand
- The man from York lives in the red house
- The Texan have a dog
- The man from Arizona drinks tea
- The green house is to the left of the white one
- The man that smokes Pall Mall has birds
- Dunhill is smoked in the Yellow house
- Milk is drunk in the middle house
- The Minnesotan lives in the first house
- The man smoking Blue Master drinks beer
- The man smoking Blend lives next to the house with the cat
- Next to the house with a horse Dunhill is smoked
- The man from Washington smokes Prince
- The Minnesotan lives next to the blue house
- Water is drunk in the house next to the house where Blend is smoked

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:22 pm
by Bearcules
Private_slim wrote:Try this one, took me 3 hours to do. (I might have been easily distracted by music/yt in this period, not exactly working on it, but still, fucking thing annoyed me SO MUCH)

Who owns the Zebra?

- There are 5 houses
- All the house owners are from different states
- They all have different pets
- One of them owns a Zebra
- All drink different beverages
- They each smoke a different brand
- The man from York lives in the red house
- The Texan have a dog
- The man from Arizona drinks tea
- The green house is to the left of the white one
- The man that smokes Pall Mall has birds
- Dunhill is smoked in the Yellow house
- Milk is drunk in the middle house
- The Minnesotan lives in the first house
- The man smoking Blue Master drinks beer
- The man smoking Blend lives next to the house with the cat
- Next to the house with a horse Dunhill is smoked
- The man from Washington smokes Prince
- The Minnesotan lives next to the blue house
- Water is drunk in the house next to the house where Blend is smoked


The zebra is owned by the man from Washington who smokes Prince, lives in the last house (which is white), and drinks an undisclosed beverage. Correct?

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:00 pm
by tuxbox
Private_slim wrote:Try this one, took me 3 hours to do. (I might have been easily distracted by music/yt in this period, not exactly working on it, but still, fucking thing annoyed me SO MUCH)

Who owns the Zebra?

- There are 5 houses
- All the house owners are from different states
- They all have different pets
- One of them owns a Zebra
- All drink different beverages
- They each smoke a different brand
- The man from York lives in the red house
- The Texan have a dog
- The man from Arizona drinks tea
- The green house is to the left of the white one
- The man that smokes Pall Mall has birds
- Dunhill is smoked in the Yellow house
- Milk is drunk in the middle house
- The Minnesotan lives in the first house
- The man smoking Blue Master drinks beer
- The man smoking Blend lives next to the house with the cat
- Next to the house with a horse Dunhill is smoked
- The man from Washington smokes Prince
- The Minnesotan lives next to the blue house
- Water is drunk in the house next to the house where Blend is smoked


The first house=Minnesotan
The second house=Blue
The third house=Milk
The fourth house=Brain exploding

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:07 pm
by Private_slim
Bearcules wrote:
Private_slim wrote:yappity yap yap yap


The zebra is owned by the man from Washington who smokes Prince, lives in the last house (which is white), and drinks an undisclosed beverage. Correct?


Nope. Or, All I asked for was who owns the Zebra, and you got that right, although you mixed the houses, he lives in the green house and drinks coffee.
So I guess you win.

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:27 pm
by Bearcules
Private_slim wrote:Nope. Or, All I asked for was who owns the Zebra, and you got that right, although you mixed the houses, he lives in the green house and drinks coffee.
So I guess you win.


Um... did you alter the riddle at all? Coffee is not mentioned.

Also, whether it is the Green or White house depends on what you consider to be the "first house". If the first house is on the left, he is in the White house. If it is on the right, then he is in the Green house.

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:33 am
by FiverBeyond
Can I join in the fun? Here's a Smullyan classic...


Suppose I propose to play a game with you. On the table in front of you, I place one penny, one quarter, and one shiny silver dollar.
The rules of the game are as follows:

1. You may ask me precisely one yes/no question.
2. I will respond truthfully (and only by answering either 'yes' or 'no').
3. If I respond with 'no', I will give you the penny.
4. If I respond with 'yes', I will give you the quarter.

Your goal is to get the shiny silver dollar. What question do you ask?


For extra super-genius bonus points (or if the basic puzzle is too easy), do the same puzzle, only remove the requirement to tell the truth (that is, I will respond with 'yes' or 'no', but I may choose to lie or tell the truth).

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:28 am
by Bearcules
FiverBeyond wrote:Can I join in the fun? Here's a Smullyan classic...


Suppose I propose to play a game with you. On the table in front of you, I place one penny, one quarter, and one shiny silver dollar.
The rules of the game are as follows:

1. You may ask me precisely one yes/no question.
2. I will respond truthfully (and only by answering either 'yes' or 'no').
3. If I respond with 'no', I will give you the penny.
4. If I respond with 'yes', I will give you the quarter.

Your goal is to get the shiny silver dollar. What question do you ask?


For extra super-genius bonus points (or if the basic puzzle is too easy), do the same puzzle, only remove the requirement to tell the truth (that is, I will respond with 'yes' or 'no', but I may choose to lie or tell the truth).


Will you give me the penny?

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:19 am
by Anachronous Rex
FiverBeyond wrote:Can I join in the fun? Here's a Smullyan classic...


Suppose I propose to play a game with you. On the table in front of you, I place one penny, one quarter, and one shiny silver dollar.
The rules of the game are as follows:

1. You may ask me precisely one yes/no question.
2. I will respond truthfully (and only by answering either 'yes' or 'no').
3. If I respond with 'no', I will give you the penny.
4. If I respond with 'yes', I will give you the quarter.

Your goal is to get the shiny silver dollar. What question do you ask?


For extra super-genius bonus points (or if the basic puzzle is too easy), do the same puzzle, only remove the requirement to tell the truth (that is, I will respond with 'yes' or 'no', but I may choose to lie or tell the truth).

"Your goal is to get the shiny silver dollar. What question do you ask?"

How badly do you want the antidote?

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:25 pm
by FiverBeyond
Bearcules wrote:
Will you give me the penny?



You're on the right track, but that will just make my brain explode (and still won't get you the silver dollar).


Anachronous Rex wrote:How badly do you want the antidote?


I'm a particularly eccentric logician, quite happy to die rather than give up my silver dollar (unless forced by the rules of the game).
But well played, sir, well played.

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:25 pm
by Bearcules
FiverBeyond wrote:
Bearcules wrote:
Will you give me the penny?



You're on the right track, but that will just make my brain explode (and still won't get you the silver dollar).


Well, if your brain exploded I would just take the silver dollar ;)

However...

Will give me the penny OR the silver dollar and quarter?

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:41 pm
by FiverBeyond
Bearcules wrote:Well, if your brain exploded I would just take the silver dollar ;)

However...

Will give me the penny OR the silver dollar and quarter?


Yes, well done. If I actually had a silver dollar, I'd give it to you.

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:01 pm
by Bearcules
FiverBeyond wrote:
Yes, well done. If I actually had a silver dollar, I'd give it to you.


Wee! :o

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:00 am
by Visaki
1. You may ask me precisely one yes/no question.

Will give me the penny OR the silver dollar and quarter?

I might be totally off the canal here but I can't see how that qualifies as a "yes/no question" since the "or" negates the possibility for a "yes/no" answer.

Re: ** STICKY ** League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:52 pm
by Bearcules
Visaki wrote:I might be totally off the canal here but I can't see how that qualifies as a "yes/no question" since the "or" negates the possibility for a "yes/no" answer.


It is still can be a yes/no question. Perhaps it should have been worded as such:

"Will you give me either the penny or the silver dollar."

If he answers "no" then he is saying he will not give me either item. But he is bound by the rules of the game to give me the penny if he his answer is "no", thus he would be lying, thus he must answer "yes" in order to be truthful.

And by answering "yes" he must give me one of the items listed, however he is bound by the rules of the game to only give me the penny when he answers "no". So in order for his "yes" to be truthful he must give me whatever the other item was (in this case, the silver dollar).

Incidentally, If I wanted to really stick it to our riddle-master I could have added all manner of things that he would then be forced to give me. I could very well have asked him:

"Will you give me either the penny or big box containing a million dollars, a Ferrari, a new TV, and the silver dollar?"

But I was nice ;)

Re: League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:35 pm
by hyperion1110
Fictionarious wrote:Okay. Now for the big guns.

There are twelve nearly identical metal balls. They all are the exact same weight, except for one, you don't know whether it's heavier or lighter than the others, just that it has a different weight. Other than this minor difference they are identical.

You have a equal arm balance.

You have been commissioned to find the odd ball out in just three weighings or less.

How would you proceed?


Place six balls on each side of the balance, see which side is heavier; discard the lighter side.

Place the remaining six balls, three on each side, see which side is heavier; discard the lighter side.

Pick two of the three remaining balls and weigh them. If one side is heavier than the other, you have your answer. If they weigh the same, the heavier ball is the one that you didn't weigh on the last run.

Re: League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:34 pm
by Steelmage99
hyperion1110 wrote:
Fictionarious wrote:Okay. Now for the big guns.

There are twelve nearly identical metal balls. They all are the exact same weight, except for one, you don't know whether it's heavier or lighter than the others, just that it has a different weight. Other than this minor difference they are identical.

You have a equal arm balance.

You have been commissioned to find the odd ball out in just three weighings or less.

How would you proceed?


Place six balls on each side of the balance, see which side is heavier; discard the lighter side.

Place the remaining six balls, three on each side, see which side is heavier; discard the lighter side.

Pick two of the three remaining balls and weigh them. If one side is heavier than the other, you have your answer. If they weigh the same, the heavier ball is the one that you didn't weigh on the last run.


What if they weigh the same on the second attempt?

Re: League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:48 pm
by hyperion1110
Steelmage99 wrote:
hyperion1110 wrote:
What if they weigh the same on the second attempt?


That's impossible. After the first weigh, it is guaranteed that one and only one of the balls in the remaining six is heavier. When those groups are divided in two again, with two groups of three, it is also guaranteed that there is one and only one that is heavier. This is known as a complete disjunction. It isn't until the third weigh that the situation changes slightly. However, it is still guaranteed that you will know which of the three is the heaviest by taking a random sample of the three that remain (this is also a complete disjunction, but it is three valued).

Re: League of Reason? PROVE YOURSELF!

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:06 am
by Steelmage99
hyperion1110 wrote:
Steelmage99 wrote:
What if they weigh the same on the second attempt?


That's impossible. After the first weigh, it is guaranteed that one and only one of the balls in the remaining six is heavier. When those groups are divided in two again, with two groups of three, it is also guaranteed that there is one and only one that is heavier. This is known as a complete disjunction. It isn't until the third weigh that the situation changes slightly. However, it is still guaranteed that you will know which of the three is the heaviest by taking a random sample of the three that remain (this is also a complete disjunction, but it is three valued).


Have you inadvertently overlooked that you do not know whether the "odd" ball is heavier or lighter?