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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
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ProlescumWebhamsterUser avatarPosts: 5005Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:41 pmLocation: Peptone-upon-Sores

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:18 am
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2963Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil_yadav wrote:
The planet will regenerate after humans are gone but the destruction of Ecosystems, the loss of Biodiversity and millions of species is a big tragedy that could have been easily avoided if humans had lived a simple life.......This planet was home to millions of species not just man alone.......Millions of animal species got decimated and tortured for no fault of theirs.


By 'simple life' I assume you mean 'hunter-gatherer', however you overlook the fact that hunter-gatherers had a hugely negative effect on biodiversity. Look up the extinction of the mega-fauna in Australia that occurred after humans arrived. Look at what happened to many of the species in America after humans arrived there. This idea that being a hunter-gatherer is a positive for biodiversity is bollocks.

............................................................................
Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.
............................................................................

A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity


We don't need to stop industrial activity, we simply need to adapt it so that it is based upon renewable energy and gives off less greenhouse gasses. Why do you think we have to take a huge step backwards in order to preserve the environment? I think it can be done more efficiently by taking steps forward rather than regressing to primitive societies.

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Industrial Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is trying to save environment by changing the Technology.

Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.


Why is changing the technology a bad thing? It makes far more sense than regressing back to the neolithic times... That is a fantasy that will never happen, and it wouldn't be a good thing if it did.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.


How so?

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.


It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.


Again these problems can be tackled progressively through technological advancement, rather than through regression to an earlier, less comfortable and harder way of life.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.


How do you know this?

I can't be bothered to trawl through the rest of your rant right now, but I want to ask you something. What are you doing on the internet? Why are you using electricity? I assume if you get sick you'd use some kind of transport to go to the doctors? If industrial society is so bad, why are you participating in it? Why don't you live by your principles and adopt a hunter-gatherer lifestyle? Without doing so, you just sound like an enormous hypocrite...
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Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:44 am
sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Laurens wrote: I want to ask you something. What are you doing on the internet? Why are you using electricity? I assume if you get sick you'd use some kind of transport to go to the doctors? If industrial society is so bad, why are you participating in it? Why don't you live by your principles and adopt a hunter-gatherer lifestyle? Without doing so, you just sound like an enormous hypocrite...


I never claimed that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment.

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get included automatically.

Computers are being used today because they are being manufactured by Industrial Society.

Was anyone using computers in Hunter_Gatherer Society / Agrarian Society?????

There are billions of people in this world who are not using computers.....Has that saved the environment?????.....It hasn't, because billions of other people are using computers and thousands of other consumer goods and services.

Environment doesn't get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It doesn't get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this doesn't save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.

In a non-industrial society simple living happens automatically....one does not have to make efforts to live a simple life. In a non-industrial society environment gets saved automatically....one does not have to make efforts to save environment.

An Industrial Society produces thousands of consumer goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter.....therefore simple living by entire society is impossible.

There is no industrial society which limits its activity to just food, clothing, shelter and does not produce consumer goods.

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth we will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.
Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:34 pm
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CosmicJoghurtPodcasterUser avatarPosts: 808Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:59 pm Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil_yadav wrote:
Laurens wrote: I want to ask you something. What are you doing on the internet? Why are you using electricity? I assume if you get sick you'd use some kind of transport to go to the doctors? If industrial society is so bad, why are you participating in it? Why don't you live by your principles and adopt a hunter-gatherer lifestyle? Without doing so, you just sound like an enormous hypocrite...


I never claimed that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment.

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get included automatically.

Computers are being used today because they are being manufactured by Industrial Society.

Was anyone using computers in Hunter_Gatherer Society / Agrarian Society?????

There are billions of people in this world who are not using computers.....Has that saved the environment?????.....It hasn't, because billions of other people are using computers and thousands of other consumer goods and services.

Environment doesn't get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It doesn't get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this doesn't save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.

In a non-industrial society simple living happens automatically....one does not have to make efforts to live a simple life. In a non-industrial society environment gets saved automatically....one does not have to make efforts to save environment.

An Industrial Society produces thousands of consumer goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter.....therefore simple living by entire society is impossible.

There is no industrial society which limits its activity to just food, clothing, shelter and does not produce consumer goods.

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth we will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.



Allow me to say, all of what you just said is stupid.

Look, for one, you can't just stop societies from developing. You can't. Kay? You can't do shit about it.

Now, let's assume for a moment that you can.

Your idea of a good society is a society without any sort of advanced medicine, agriculture, industry... anything?
Good luck feeding 7 billion people like that, let alone the amount of diseases that will arise, which you conveniently have cure for.

Quite simply, you're naive. And wrong. On so many levels...
Perception of reality results in interpretation of reality which results in a deformation of reality.
Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:56 pm
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2963Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


I never claimed that I am not a part of society that is destroying environment.


Yes, but my point is that you are highly critical of industrial society, yet you are reaping all the benefits of it. If you were truly a person of your principles then you would not be doing that. It would be like me arguing that eating meat is morally equivalent to murder, yet still not being a vegetarian.

The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment" and since I am a citizen of Industrial Society I get included automatically.


And your being a part of industrial society and reaping all the benefits of it completely undermines your argument. Why should we listen to someone arguing using a computer that industrial society is bad... Would you listen to me ranting about how meat is murder whist eating a burger?

Computers are being used today because they are being manufactured by Industrial Society.

Was anyone using computers in Hunter_Gatherer Society / Agrarian Society?????

There are billions of people in this world who are not using computers.....Has that saved the environment?????.....It hasn't, because billions of other people are using computers and thousands of other consumer goods and services.


I don't think the use of computers is negative at all. In fact computing has, and will contribute greatly towards the fight against climate change etc. You're the one arguing that industrial society is evil...

Environment doesn't get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It doesn't get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this doesn't save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.


What is the point in even thinking this? How do you suppose we get everyone to revert to a hunter gatherer lifestyle? You might as well argue that the best thing for society is for humans to stop breathing oxygen... Its not going to happen, so why entertain the fantasy?
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Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:58 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2970Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Greetings,

With all due respect, sushil_yadav, your series of posts are confused/

Earlier, you essentially indicate that there's either thinking or feeling - that is not the case, thinking is feeling.

You could read such books as The Hour Between Dog and Wolf: Risk Taking, Gut Feelings and the Biology of Boom and Bust (whose author argues that we think with our whole body - that "Man is the measure of all things" as a result of epigenetic determinism), Animal Spirits: How Human Psychology Drives the Economy, and Why It Matters for Global Capitalism, or even Thinking, Fast and Slow to get a better understanding of this.

Within meditation, one usually attempts to cease the flow of thoughts across the mind - even then, one is "aware" of the "silence".

Your diatribe against industrialization is also misplaced: although it has allowed population to increase, through food production and advances in medicine - increasing life expectancy and reducing infant mortality - that inter-relationship has become critically dependent. Without industrialization, the food supply would not support the current - and growing - population; this would result in wholesale war over food and water. Equally, the loss of medical science would result in disease and increases in infant and adult mortality. The combined result would be a global disaster of biblical proportions: war, famine, plague, etc.

There are a number of economists and ethicists who're currently addressing how we need to change society, and in what way, for the future: The Plundered Planet: How to Reconcile Prosperity With Nature and Ecological Ethics, respectively, to name but two.

The world can continue without us - as The World Without Us explores - but the environment won't be "destroyed": over 90% of life has been wiped out before (approximately 250 million years ago, for example) and the world recovered when dinosaurs lived in lush forests, etc. Even after their demise, due to another global environmental disaster, the world recovered again.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:10 pm
sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

The West started Industrial Revolution and was the first to travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

The West did not have the foresight to know that a lifestyle based on loot, plunder and exploitation of natural resources would destroy the very things that created and sustained all life on earth for millions of years and ultimately lead to total destruction of biodiversity and ecosystems.

The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The West spent its time and energy on "reason" which led to Science, Technology and Industrialization / Material Development....The West has got very little knowledge of Spiritual Development.....Very little concept of peaceful states of mind / peaceful subjective experience.

The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

These cultures were quite happy and content with their Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.


Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:15 pm
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CosmicJoghurtPodcasterUser avatarPosts: 808Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:59 pm Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

sushil,

If you want any kind of credibility over here, you'll have to answer our criticism to your posts.

And not just copy pasting the same bullshit on this and other forums::

http://thetaobums.com/user/19696-sushil ... tab__posts


EDIT: Another one

http://old.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t= ... a250d92e38


So, my point is, address our criticism.
Perception of reality results in interpretation of reality which results in a deformation of reality.
Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:33 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2970Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Greetings,

sushil_yadav, despite your complaints about the West, might I point out that it is the East that has the issue of over-population, and its associated problems?

China has had to introduce a one-child policy to slow its rate of population growth. There have already been food riots in the countryside that the authorities have failed to keep hidden from the international media.

India also has a huge population - second only to China.

You realise that your suggestion of doing away with industrial food production will impact both these countries the most?

To simply do away with industrialization is not the answer - I've already pointed you to a couple of books (I could provide more) that advocate a change to other, (more) sustainable economic approaches to the problems the world faces.

And, as Laurens pointed out, hunter-gatherer societies have had damaging effects on the environment - one example of which is Easter Island.

As CosmicJoghurt points out, please stop parroting others' views and answer the points we've raised.

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:11 pm
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2963Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Someone needs to read Guns, Germs, and Steel... Those countries you mention didn't decide not to industrialise, they couldn't due to various factors discussed in the aforementioned book.
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Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:05 am
sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Dragan Glas wrote:Greetings,

sushil_yadav, despite your complaints about the West, might I point out that it is the East that has the issue of over-population, and its associated problems?

China has had to introduce a one-child policy to slow its rate of population growth. There have already been food riots in the countryside that the authorities have failed to keep hidden from the international media.

India also has a huge population - second only to China.

James



The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.

It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China???? .....And once again, In the absence of Industrialization India and China would not be having large populations today.

If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism"¦"¦.Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased "¦"¦It has decreased"¦"¦In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species"¦"¦Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not increased"¦..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species......There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

This planet can only sustain a Non-Industrial Society.
Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:59 pm
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sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Laurens wrote:
Environment doesn't get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It doesn't get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It doesn't get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this doesn't save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.


What is the point in even thinking this? How do you suppose we get everyone to revert to a hunter gatherer lifestyle? You might as well argue that the best thing for society is for humans to stop breathing oxygen... Its not going to happen, so why entertain the fantasy?


When did I talk about going back to Hunter_Gatherer lifestyle.........Show me when........Show me where?????

I said all people lived a simple life in Hunter_Gatherer Society .........How does that mean I am asking people to go back to Hunter_Gatherer Society?????


You should read my posts carefully before posting your reply.........Here is what I had written in an earlier post [7 October , 2012] on the previous page :

sushil_yadav wrote:

Industrial Society has existed for barely 250 years which comes to almost Zero Percent of Total Human Existence on earth....Humans have spent more than 99.99% of their time on earth in Non-Industrial Societies [Hunter_Gatherer and Agrarian].....Industrial Society is an Anomaly....Only Non-Industrial Societies are sustainable.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:14 pm
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CosmicJoghurtPodcasterUser avatarPosts: 808Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:59 pm Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Sushil, unless you address our points as thoroughly as we do yours, or don't and explain why, most of us will refrain from further discussion with you, for reasons you may understand.

Sincerely and with great love,

Cosmic.
Perception of reality results in interpretation of reality which results in a deformation of reality.
Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:01 pm
Dragan GlasContributorUser avatarPosts: 2970Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:55 amLocation: Ireland Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Greetings,

In your reply to me, sushil_yadav, you're simply regurgitating the same thoughts you posted earlier.

Your complaint against "over-consumerism" is more a complaint about the failure of international law and corruption (profit-before-people) on the recycling and dumping of waste products - mainly in the developing world.

Birth-rates in industrialized nations have reduced, mainly due to the availability of birth-control as a result of medical science, greater (sex) education and industrialisation (allowing the manufacture of birth-control pills, etc).

Birth-rates in countries where religion holds sway - thus preventing sex education and contraceptives - has remained high.

The population may well continue to rise, as a recent BBC report shows.

Industrialised food production - including GM - is the only way to feed the growing billions.

To suggest otherwise - "This planet can only sustain a Non-Industrial Society" and "Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum" - is naive, to say the least.

Our industrial society will change to a "green" society - thus retaining "hi-tech" industries, whilst changing the impact on the environment.

Are you really suggesting living a "hand-to-mouth" existence, without any further development of science and technology? No space exploration? Space colonization? What will the human race do without our minds being able to explore Nature and the "big questions"?

Kindest regards,

James
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"The Word of God is the Creation we behold and it is in this Word, which no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh universally to man."
The Age Of Reason
Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:07 am
sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

CosmicJoghurt wrote:sushil,

If you want any kind of credibility over here, you'll have to answer our criticism to your posts.

And not just copy pasting the same bullshit on this and other forums::

http://thetaobums.com/user/19696-sushil ... tab__posts


EDIT: Another one

http://old.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t= ... a250d92e38
.


Mr. Genius,

I have answered all your criticism........If you fail to understand it is your problem not mine.

I suggest that you leave the safety of this forum and participate in some of the environmental forums to know your credibility and who posts bullshit.

I had written earlier that people should read the thread carefully before posting replies........In my very first post I had mentioned that I have posted my article in other forums as well.......And I also posted links to the complete article....... I had myself revealed the fact that I have posted in other forums.


sushil_yadav wrote:I want to share my article with members of "League of Reason Forums". I would like to inform the moderators that I have also posted my article in other forums and blogs relevant to the article/ related to keywords in the article. You are requested to kindly read.
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Please note : I was not able to post the complete article here since it exceeded the maximum limit. To read the remaiining part of article please follow any of these links :

http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtop ... f=3&t=2915
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... php?t=1796
http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/vi ... 5&t=145350
Last edited by sushil_yadav on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:29 am
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sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

Dragan Glas wrote:
Our industrial society will change to a "green" society - thus retaining "hi-tech" industries, whilst changing the impact on the environment.


Industrial Society has been spreading ridiculous and blatant lies.....Two of them are......Forest cover is rising and the planet is getting cleaner due to modern technology.

Forest cover was maximum during Hunter_Gatherer stage......Agrarian Society cut down forests to create agricultural fields......Industrial Society further cut down forests for all kinds of Industrial Activity......Logging Industry, Mining Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Construction Industry, Ever expanding Towns and Cities, Millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks.....Anyone with a little bit of common sense would know that forest cover cannot rise in Industrial Society.....This is an impossibility.

It is impossible for Air, Water and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.......Industrial Activity produces three kinds of waste - Solid, Liquid and Gaseous .......And it does not produce just a few kilograms of waste, it produces Trillions of tonnes of waste - There are only three places on earth where this waste can go - Air, water and Soil - There is no fourth place on earth where Industrial Waste can go......Liquid Waste goes into Rivers and Oceans, Solid Waste is thrown away on the land and Gaseous Waste goes into the atmosphere......Industrial Activity in the last 250 years has contaminated and poisoned the planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....It is impossible for Air, Water and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society......It is impossible for Rivers and Oceans to be clean in Industrial Society......It is impossible for Air / Atmosphere to be clean in Industrial Society......It is impossible for the Land / Soil to be clean in Industrial Society......The entire planet has become a Toxic Dump.....The entire planet has turned into a Landfill / Garbage Dump.
Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:50 am
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CosmicJoghurtPodcasterUser avatarPosts: 808Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:59 pm Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

No, you didn't address our criticisms. You quoted entire posts, addressed a small bit of them and kept going with your everlasting continuum of bullshit.

You haven't explained what a "simple life" is.
You haven't explained how green technologies won't work.
You haven't explained how you wish to feed the world without modern agriculture that uses machines and chemicals to ensure reliability.
You haven't explained how you wish to ensure people's health without modern medicine.

All you've done is rant about how stupid mankind has been, from your naive point of view, without offering any sort of solution aside from "living a simple life".
Perception of reality results in interpretation of reality which results in a deformation of reality.
Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:55 am
sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

May I ask one simple question?

If I haven't explained anything and there is nothing of value in the thread then why do you keep coming back to it???

I did not post the thread for you.......I did not post the thread for one person.

I have no desire to engage in endless hair splitting with you.

You are free to move on to some other intelligent thread in the forum.
Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:16 am
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sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

If Discussion could solve Global Problems this world would have become a Paradise by now..........Billions of pages of Discussion on Global Problems has not brought any solution.......All problems of Industrial Society are unsolvable because Industrialization itself is the cause of problems.

Discussion is good only if it is limited in content.........Excessive Discussion is a disease.

Endless Discussion, Debate and Argument is a Disease and Insanity of Industrial Society that invented the Printing Press, Radio, Television and Internet.

Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument is another harmful waste of Industrial Society just like billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.
Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:48 am
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sushil_yadavPosts: 24Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 amLocation: Delhi, India Gender: Male

Post Re: Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

CosmicJoghurt wrote:...... without offering any sort of solution .


This question would make sense if environment had never been saved before....... This question would make sense if environment had never been saved in the past.

You are asking a question whose answer has been known for millions of years.

You save environment the way it was saved for millions of years.

There is only one way to save environment.......Destroy less.

Animals saved environment by destroying it only for food.

Hunter_Gatherer Society saved environment by destroying it only for food.

Agrarian Society saved environment by destroying it only for food, clothing and shelter.

For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.........You cannot save environment by destroying it for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.
Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:02 am
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