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Christian Fascists

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Christian Fascists
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Dogma's DemisePosts: 576Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:23 am

Post Re: Christian Fascists

I said it before, free speech is not the issue here, I can preach separatism all day long in Romania, but I can't form a political party based on it.

"Tell me, do you make all your decisions based on unlikely what ifs?"

Now how am I supposed to answer this without admitting that I have based a decision at least once on "unlikely what ifs"?

Okay, fine, I will admit that I do have some irrational thoughts, but I don't believe this is one of them. I generally don't base my decisions on "unlikely what ifs". And also, I would really like to see a clear definition of what he means by "what if". There are plenty of unlikely scenarios which we do take into consideration if we feel the consequences would be bad enough to warrant prevention. And certainly keeping my rights and the rights of future generations is a priority, since politics are unpredictable over a very large time period, certainly it's not irrational for a democratic system to have safeguards in place so things don't get out of hand. (And don't kid yourself, there are, separatist doctrine is a much more obvious example of how your political party can be outlawed.)
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government" - Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:20 pm
)O( Hytegia )O(League LegendUser avatarPosts: 3135Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:27 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Christian Fascists

A Political Party is a campaigning body.

To halt the formation of a campaigning body would require violations of Speech, Assembly, Press.
Some would insinuate that being drunk at 9 in the morning to be signs of serious issues.
Me? I'd insinuate it as signs of no plans and a refrigerator full of Whiskey and Guinness.
Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:09 pm
Dogma's DemisePosts: 576Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:23 am

Post Re: Christian Fascists

Well, then we have a problem. :lol: That means there's not a single free country in the entire world according to these unrealistic standards of freedom.
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government" - Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:27 am
)O( Hytegia )O(League LegendUser avatarPosts: 3135Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:27 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Christian Fascists

Dogma's Demise wrote:Well, then we have a problem. :lol: That means there's not a single free country in the entire world according to these unrealistic standards of freedom.


The KKK can still roam around, and hate groups are legal so long as they do not actively engage in illegal activity.

America: 1
Most other Countries: 0

In fact, if I'm correct, you stated earlier that you support people being able to deny the Holocaust publicly. What you have stated in this very thread is the exact mindset for the laws you claim to reject - the only reason such actions are banned in many countries is because they are considered "offensive, counterproductive, and immoral."
The same freedoms you claim to support would be crushed by the declarations you've spewed in this (and many other) threads and discussions we've had with you.

Pick a side.
You can either speak freely about anything you'd like, or you cannot - this is something in which there is no middle ground.
Some would insinuate that being drunk at 9 in the morning to be signs of serious issues.
Me? I'd insinuate it as signs of no plans and a refrigerator full of Whiskey and Guinness.
Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:34 am
Dogma's DemisePosts: 576Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:23 am

Post Re: Christian Fascists

the only reason such actions are banned in many countries is because they are considered "offensive, counterproductive, and immoral."


I don't care that they're "offensive". I care that their agenda is a threat (a direct threat) to religious liberty. Action =/= words.
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government" - Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:28 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4325Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Christian Fascists

So stop them expressing their agenda, because that will work.
:roll:
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Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:44 pm
Dogma's DemisePosts: 576Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:23 am

Post Re: Christian Fascists

I give up. :lol:
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government" - Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:43 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4325Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Christian Fascists

At last.
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Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:47 pm
)O( Hytegia )O(League LegendUser avatarPosts: 3135Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:27 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Christian Fascists

I'd give up, too, if I was shown the trappings of my own argument.

But, don't worry:

I despise what you have to say (as retarded and as contradictory as it may be at times) and I defend to the death your right to say it - just don't expect me to let you spout such absurdities unchecked.
Some would insinuate that being drunk at 9 in the morning to be signs of serious issues.
Me? I'd insinuate it as signs of no plans and a refrigerator full of Whiskey and Guinness.
Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:34 am
Dogma's DemisePosts: 576Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:23 am

Post Re: Christian Fascists

No, I gave up cause it's going around in circles. Plus the fact that you think my ideas are "retarded" and "contradictory" just goes to show you your mind's locked up tight.

By the way, you're not really for free speech either, remember the stuff you said in my other thread about the anti-Islam video?
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government" - Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:26 pm
australopithecusLime TordUser avatarPosts: 4325Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pmLocation: Kernow Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Christian Fascists

Dogma's Demise wrote:No, I gave up cause it's going around in circles. Plus the fact that you think my ideas are "retarded" and "contradictory" just goes to show you your mind's locked up tight.


Yeah, because disagreeing with YOU means we're automatically closed minded. Oh, Bastion of Truth, forgive us mere mortals.
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Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:13 pm
)O( Hytegia )O(League LegendUser avatarPosts: 3135Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:27 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: Christian Fascists

I'm going to do something you will never do:
I was wrong.

The making of the movie is not the same case as yelling "Fire" in a theater and someone dying - though the fact they did so purely to stir up the Muslim world is a despicable act.

Now that we're done Strawmanning, defend the fortress of ignorance you have built or run away from it. Either way, you've surrendered that your position is indefeasible.
Some would insinuate that being drunk at 9 in the morning to be signs of serious issues.
Me? I'd insinuate it as signs of no plans and a refrigerator full of Whiskey and Guinness.
Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:45 am
CommonEnlightenmentUser avatarPosts: 649Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:06 amLocation: Plato Crater Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Christian Fascists

With 'friends' like that who needs enemies? Kinda reminds me of Republicans vs. Democrats in the States.
There is still light in the 'Earthly' darkness. Finding light in the darkness can be more satisfying than merely seeing the glaring light of our sun. It gives us a better understanding of light and a deeper understanding of our universe.
Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:10 pm
AyameTanPosts: 75Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:18 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Christian Fascists

Dogma's Demise wrote:I think it's time to show my "Christianophobic" side. :twisted: (a made up word of course, just like another word we could mention)

Now there's this party in my country called PNC (National Christian Party), well it's not really a party but it's on its way to becoming one once they have enough signatures. And what this party wants to achieve (among other things) is to change the Romanian Constitution and turn the country from a secular one to an Orthodox Christian one. More specifically they want a Christian elite in power, so if you're a non-Christian you're pretty much fucked, they support anti-blasphemy laws, they support religion being taught in public schools, they are anti-abortion, anti-prostitution, they support measures to increase birthrates (which honestly are a problem but I don't think I'd ever agree with most of their tactics), they don't want any immigrant becoming citizen unless he/she converts to Orthodox Christianity.


Is VyckRo aware of this? From his "Bloody History of Atheism" video series, I would gather that he would prefer a return to the monarchies of old. Would he approve of lethally injecting tyrannical kings, queens and priests, I wonder? I doubt it, even though there would be no blood in those instances.

Dogma's Demise wrote:When it comes to foreign policy, they want out of the EU, out of NATO, and generally they have isolationist policies, which I don't agree with because we're fucked on our own. For example they don't want foreigners buying land, they want to nationalize (i.e. steal) land that's not cultivated which is kinda ironic given that they claim to be anti-communist which did the same thing: steal land and houses, they don't want food imports of food that can be produced here.


If they do isolate themselves from the rest of the world, they'd soon learn that they need help to survive in the 21st century. Especially if they want modern medicine and the gems gleaned from evolutionary theory.

Sadly, if they do get their way, they would probably not realise this until thousands (if not tens of thousands) are dead from lack of medical care.

Dogma's Demise wrote:They want a stronger military, but given the fact that they also believe in several conspiracy theories about the Zionist NWO that's gonna start world wars and reduce the population to a few hundred million I just have to ask: If you believe there's some sinister cabal with that power that inflict such destruction and destabilize the world, WHAT GOOD do you think the military of a country with less than 20 million people will do? You're just delaying the inevitable. :lol:


Why do the religious always leap to violence as the initial solution? Oh, right, it's in their holy book. :roll:

Dogma's Demise wrote:Basically it's an ultra-conservative, ultra-nationalist, anti-western, anti-freedom party. A bunch of twats who see Romania as a decadent and corrupt country (it is) that they think they can solve it by imposing a theocracy based on Orthodox Christianity.


And this is why conservatism, not liberalism (don't believe Jonah Goldberg for a second) leads to totalitarianism.

Dogma's Demise wrote:I don't like them, I don't trust them, and I don't even think this party should even be permitted to function given its totalitarian agenda that wants to abolish freedom of and from religion.


Implementing anti-democratic instruments to protect democracy is never going to end nicely, no matter how pure your intentions may be.

Dogma's Demise wrote:Yes, the current parties are fucked and corrupt, but I don't believe for one second that they'll be any different and having a theocracy opens the door for plenty of abuse since people can commit any number of human rights violations and justify it using God. They sure like to talk about how only someone who fears God (i.e. fears punishment) can ever be a good ruler, ignoring the fact that someone can claim to fear God and secretly be an atheist anyway, so the problem wouldn't be solved. This is a despicable party that wants to gain power by exploiting people's disappointment with the current mainstream non-religious parties.

And don't get me wrong, I seriously doubt that they have a good chance to win any seats for the foreseeable future, but I'm not gonna wait until then to start speaking about it.


That's good to know. :) Unlike impoverished Middle Eastern countries, they won't elect a terrorist group to guide them to mutual destruction with their enemy-of-the-week.
Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:22 am
Dogma's DemisePosts: 576Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:23 am

Post Re: Christian Fascists

AyameTan wrote:Implementing anti-democratic instruments to protect democracy is never going to end nicely, no matter how pure your intentions may be.


You know a few years ago Pew Reasearch Center (Global Attitudes Project) did a survey in various Muslim majority countries, including Turkey.

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/ ... 2-2010.pdf

Can you guess which country's people were the least likely to support terrorism or Sharia law? Turkey. Now Ataturk was no saint, but at least he recognized the dangers of political religion and founded a hardline secular Turkey that went as far as to ban Islamist political parties.

I don't know how anyone can say that it doesn't work. It's certainly made the country less fanatical, even though nowadays stealth jihadist Erdogan seems to be attempting to reverse that, one step at a time.

Nobody has ever managed to argue against that without resorting to either idealistic fantasies about "freedom", yeah thanks a lot, how about MY freedom not to be forced to submit to a religion I do not recognize as truth? How about my freedom to not be barred from politics because I don't embrace a particular religion? (That is anti-democratic.)

Or my critics they make comparisons with the Republican party (which sorry, but that's just not a theocratic party, it just has a tendency to pander to crazy Bible Belt Christians).
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government" - Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:38 am
AyameTanPosts: 75Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:18 am Gender: Male

Post Re: Christian Fascists

Dogma's Demise wrote:You know a few years ago Pew Reasearch Center (Global Attitudes Project) did a survey in various Muslim majority countries, including Turkey.

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/ ... 2-2010.pdf

Can you guess which country's people were the least likely to support terrorism or Sharia law? Turkey. Now Ataturk was no saint, but at least he recognized the dangers of political religion and founded a hardline secular Turkey that went as far as to ban Islamist political parties.

I don't know how anyone can say that it doesn't work. It's certainly made the country less fanatical, even though nowadays stealth jihadist Erdogan seems to be attempting to reverse that, one step at a time.

Nobody has ever managed to argue against that without resorting to either idealistic fantasies about "freedom", yeah thanks a lot, how about MY freedom not to be forced to submit to a religion I do not recognize as truth? How about my freedom to not be barred from politics because I don't embrace a particular religion? (That is anti-democratic.)

Or my critics they make comparisons with the Republican party (which sorry, but that's just not a theocratic party, it just has a tendency to pander to crazy Bible Belt Christians).


I don't see how driving terrorist elements underground is going to make things any easier. I can only see the problem getting worse in the short and long term. As long as all political parties have similar budgets, the fringe religious parties will end up floundering in short order.
Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:07 am
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