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QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

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QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)
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WenlokUser avatarPosts: 23Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:55 pm Gender: Time Lord

Post QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

QQ:
How does this work on a round earth?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... ight_ever/

One would expect lots of curvature at such a distance and height.

This seems to be the strongest flat earth proof ive come across.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.
Ordo Lucis~Order of Light
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:30 am
thenexttodiePosts: 894Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Not sure you have really given us enough information to provide you with an exact answer. I know that it is some times possible to see buildings on the other side of Lake Michigan which you would normally not be able to see. This is because of a mirage caused by cold air laying low above the lake and warmer air higher above.

Something like this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata_Morgana_(mirage)

Also you have to remember that the horizen is just the point where the downward curvature of the Earth begins. It is not the point where all things should magically disappear.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:31 am
thenexttodiePosts: 894Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

https://beyondhorizons.eu/2016/08/03/pic-de-finestrelles-pic-gaspard-ecrins-443-km/

The photo you are talking about was only possible due to certain atmospheric conditions. The photographer plainly states the above website.

Image

Here are other mirages caused by a similiar effect:

Image

Image

Image
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:46 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2681Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Wenlok wrote:QQ:
How does this work on a round earth?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... ight_ever/

One would expect lots of curvature at such a distance and height.

This seems to be the strongest flat earth proof ive come across.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.



If the sun's light could be seen at this distance, and the Eearth were indeed flat, wouldn't we be able to see the sun at this distance all the time?
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:41 am
hackenslashLime TordUser avatarPosts: 2439Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:43 pm Gender: Cake

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Wenlok wrote:QQ:
How does this work on a round earth?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... ight_ever/

One would expect lots of curvature at such a distance and height.

This seems to be the strongest flat earth proof ive come across.

Any thoughts?

Cheers.


Shoddy, as far as 'proof' of a flat Earth goes.

Pic de Fenestrelles has an elevation of 2,826 metres, giving a distance to the horizon of 189.9 kilometres.

Pic Gaspard has an elevation of 3,880 metres, giving a distance to the horizon of 222.5 km.

The horizon shortfall is (given a perfect sphere, rather than an oblate spheroid), therefore, given an observation distance of 443 km, a mere 30.6 km, which is easily accounted for by a combination of atmospheric lensing, the same phenomenon that makes the sunset seem to slow down and then speed up at sea level, and the fact that the Earth is oblate, which means it flattens as it gets to higher latitudes (couldn't be arse refining the calculations to account for the angle of observation and the increasing number of km per line of latitude over the observation locations).

The Earth is not flat. It's an oblate spheroid.

No 'proof' has been able to counter the observations that categorically falsify the notion of the Earth being flat.

I address some of them here, including how distance to horizon by elevation matters:

DJ! Spin That Shit!

Also, check out CoolHardLogic's brilliant 'Testing Flattards' series on Youtube, which nails this asinine idea to the wall in spectacular and comprehensive (and highly amusing) fashion, as if we hadn't already done so.

Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:28 am
leroyPosts: 2030Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Is there some sort of absolute limit where it is theoretically impossible to see beyond that limit (even with telescopes)? Well obviously there is a limit, but has anybody calculated such limit with some sort of formula?
"events with a zero probability happen all the time"
Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:58 pm
WenlokUser avatarPosts: 23Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:55 pm Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Great responses! Really appreciate it.

I forgot to mention(although its self explanatory) that this thread will hopefully be used to answer quick questions with the handle (QQ).

Cheers.
Ordo Lucis~Order of Light
Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:16 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2681Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

leroy wrote:Is there some sort of absolute limit where it is theoretically impossible to see beyond that limit (even with telescopes)? Well obviously there is a limit, but has anybody calculated such limit with some sort of formula?


I would think that the formula itself is fairly simple math. You know, something about the height and line of sight. The actual formula might include a lot of complex real-life factors, but essentially it would be fairly simple.
In reality, due to unevennes in the Earth's shape and the way light behaves in the atmosphere and whatnot, it becomes less simple.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:42 pm
Bango SkankPosts: 216Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:15 amLocation: Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Curvature on sphere earth vs. flat earth could also be tested in computer simulation / game enviroment.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield, and those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced, but one is less unwise."
Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:42 pm
WenlokUser avatarPosts: 23Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:55 pm Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

QQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjNzHDFHpA

Great points raised in this video, why isn't the tesla car melting? Elon said that they didn't do anything to the car, so I would expect atleast some form of heat, especially on the car seats.

Cheers.
Ordo Lucis~Order of Light
Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:32 pm
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2681Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Wenlok wrote:QQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIjNzHDFHpA

Great points raised in this video, why isn't the tesla car melting? Elon said that they didn't do anything to the car, so I would expect atleast some form of heat, especially on the car seats.

Cheers.



What I find amazing is how incredibly stupid these great conspirators must be in order to miss really basic details such as this.

Seriously. The amount of effort, resources and thought that would have to go into maintaining conspiracies like this would have to be larger than those of actually going to space.

And for what? For what weird, nebulous purpose?

I readily accept the fact that people can be liars and that governments can be corrupt, but both those are trumped by how hard it is for people to keep secrets, and how incompetent governments can be.

No, if you as a government or some kind of "aristocracy" wanted to keep the common people in their place, you'd create and help perpetuate a system of rampant consumerism, indulgance and appeals to basic needs. That's the real "conspiracy". (I use quotation marks because I don't actually think it's a conspiracy, but rather a naturally occurring system that emerges when society simply accepts that the rich and the rulers get to speed so disproportionately far ahead of everyone else without paying back the system that allowed them to ascend to such abnormal heights.)
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:17 pm
Steelmage99Posts: 203Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:43 am Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

An incomplete list of people/groups/organisations that have "to be in on it", if there is a conspiracy to keep the "truth" of the Flat Earth from the public;

-Any government with a presence in space (USA, France, Japan, China, UK, India, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Iran and North Korea) and everybody that is a part of ESA (the European Space Agency - Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland)
-Any commercial or private organisation with a presence in space
-Any kind of organisation dependent on celestial navigation (government, commercial, private)
-Any kind of organisation dependent on GPS navigation (government, commercial, private)
-The entire telecommunication sector (government, commercial, private)
-The entire ocean-shipping sector (government, commercial, private)
-The entire aeronautical sector (government, commercial, private)
-Every astronomer (government, commercial, private)


- Feel free to add to the list if I have missed some.
Blunder that theists make all the time;

Pretending to know what other people think.
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:32 pm
leroyPosts: 2030Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

as far as I am concern, nobody believes that the earth is flat, the so called "flat earthers" are just kidding and what to have fun.
"events with a zero probability happen all the time"
Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:18 am
WenlokUser avatarPosts: 23Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:55 pm Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

leroy wrote:as far as I am concern, nobody believes that the earth is flat, the so called "flat earthers" are just kidding and what to have fun.


HAHAHA. I'm sorry, but these people definitely without a shadow of a doubt believe the earth is flat, and will say and do anything to make themselves believe it.

Take a Gander:
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/for ... pic=2739.0

That's right, dinosaurs building boats, ice guards, fake penguins, ice wall, etc.

I thought it was a joke, we all thought it was a joke, until, well just keep reading, you'll eventually fall down the rabbit hole also.

Anyway have some laughs. Cheers.
Ordo Lucis~Order of Light
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:06 am
Gnug215ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 2681Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:31 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Yeah, I'm pretty damn sure some people honestly believe it.

God knows people believe some weird stuff out there.
- Gnug215

YouTube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Gnug215


The horse is a ferocious predator.
Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:05 pm
LaurensSocial EditorUser avatarPosts: 2995Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:24 pmLocation: Norwich UK Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

2018 and people are asking whether or not the world is round....

Excuse me while I drink everything under the kitchen sink.

PS that remark isn't aimed at the OP just a general sigh of dismay that flat earth is even a thing...
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Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:47 am
thenexttodiePosts: 894Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Steelmage99 wrote:An incomplete list of people/groups/organisations that have "to be in on it", if there is a conspiracy to keep the "truth" of the Flat Earth from the public;

-Any government with a presence in space (USA, France, Japan, China, UK, India, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Iran and North Korea) and everybody that is a part of ESA (the European Space Agency - Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland)
-Any commercial or private organisation with a presence in space
-Any kind of organisation dependent on celestial navigation (government, commercial, private)
-Any kind of organisation dependent on GPS navigation (government, commercial, private)
-The entire telecommunication sector (government, commercial, private)
-The entire ocean-shipping sector (government, commercial, private)
-The entire aeronautical sector (government, commercial, private)
-Every astronomer (government, commercial, private)


- Feel free to add to the list if I have missed some.


I have tried to use this same line of reasoning with a couple of my conspiracy theory friends and relatives. It never works. Sometimes it even results in highly agressive behavior against me.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:24 am
VisakiUser avatarPosts: 812Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:26 pmLocation: Helsinki, Finland Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

thenexttodie wrote:
Steelmage99 wrote:An incomplete list of people/groups/organisations that have "to be in on it", if there is a conspiracy to keep the "truth" of the Flat Earth from the public;

-Any government with a presence in space (USA, France, Japan, China, UK, India, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Iran and North Korea) and everybody that is a part of ESA (the European Space Agency - Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland)
-Any commercial or private organisation with a presence in space
-Any kind of organisation dependent on celestial navigation (government, commercial, private)
-Any kind of organisation dependent on GPS navigation (government, commercial, private)
-The entire telecommunication sector (government, commercial, private)
-The entire ocean-shipping sector (government, commercial, private)
-The entire aeronautical sector (government, commercial, private)
-Every astronomer (government, commercial, private)


- Feel free to add to the list if I have missed some.


I have tried to use this same line of reasoning with a couple of my conspiracy theory friends and relatives. It never works. Sometimes it even results in highly agressive behavior against me.

Indeed. Same with all conspiracy theorists. They tend to balloon up until there is a need for tens or hundreds of thousands of conspiratoors for it to work. Flat Earth is a prime candidate, but things like the 9/11 theories suffer from the same problem.

Then again that is probably just more proof of a conspiracy for them.

Though I'd like to add this to the list.

- Anyone with a high school level of math/physics experience (or 7th grade if you live in a country that has a decent education, like Finland) and a access to global travel and/or decent consumer telescope.
Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:12 am
leroyPosts: 2030Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

Visaki wrote:[
Indeed. Same with all conspiracy theorists. They tend to balloon up until there is a need for tens or hundreds of thousands of conspiratoors for it to work. Flat Earth is a prime candidate, but things like the 9/11 theories suffer from the same problem.

Then again that is probably just more proof of a conspiracy for them.
.



The psychology of conspiracy theories has been studied, it turns out that some brains “enjoy” “knowing” some sort of “secret truth” that most people are not aware of.

These brains produce dopamine when a “secret truth” is exposed. Conspiracy theorist are addicted to conspiracy theories.

For teenagers it is normal to become a “conspiracy theorists” it is simply normal for any teenager to “fight” against any authority (parents, church, government etc.) most of them drop their theories when they become mature adults.
"events with a zero probability happen all the time"
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:53 pm
Steelmage99Posts: 203Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 9:43 am Gender: Male

Post Re: QQ: Quick Questions (Flat Earth)

leroy wrote:The psychology of conspiracy theories has been studied, it turns out that some brains “enjoy” “knowing” some sort of “secret truth” that most people are not aware of.

These brains produce dopamine when a “secret truth” is exposed. Conspiracy theorist are addicted to conspiracy theories.



I simply cannot be the only person that thinks this is hilarious coming from a religious person.
Blunder that theists make all the time;

Pretending to know what other people think.
Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:04 am
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