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Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

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Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.
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WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

I'm guessing he saw my Blasphemy Video. He contacted me out of the blue, and we've been discussing for about a week now. He took his time in replying to me.

Maybe a little Tl;Dr, sorry XD



Jesusisthetruevine:

How about this? Scientific evidence proves Jesus Is GOD

Cool game that I made!

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NDUYI28L



---How to go to Heaven---

Everyone is a sinner.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Sin must be punished by death.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God does not want anyone to perish.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Jesus Christ paid that price for your sins.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

By faith in what Christ has done, we can be saved.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:6 states that there were over 500 eyewitnesses to his resurrection. His blood was analyzed and it was alive- with only 24 chromosomes. This is scientific evidence that Jesus IS GOD. It can be found here:

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/videos.htm



Whisperelmwood:

Ok. A salutation of some sort would be nice.

Firstly, do you realise that I have absolutely no belief in your book? Do you understand why, because I don't have any belief in your book, it is useless to quote from it at me?
Secondly:

-' Everyone is a sinner.'-
What, even the new born babies?

-' Sin must be punished by death.'-
Why? And tell me in your own words. Should we treat wearing clothing made from mixed materials, as the same as murder? Do they both get the same punishment? Should we treat thinking about having sex, the same as rape? Do THEY get the same punishment? Why?

-' God does not want anyone to perish.'-
Are you sure?

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

(I particularly like that one, kill children, simply for insulting someone!)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

I could go on, and on, and on.

-' Jesus Christ paid that price for your sins.'-
I didn't ask him to. I think torturing someone to death is a despicably evil thing to do, why would I want a man to do that for me, for something I may never do and have never done? And anyway, it wasn't much of a sacrifice, if at the end of it, he got to go straight to heaven and be with daddy.

-' By faith in what Christ has done, we can be saved.'-
Really? Are you sure? What about the thousands, millions of people, all over the world, who have faith in him, but are starving to death? Being raped? Being murdered? Seeing their families raped and murdered? Being hit by natural disasters? But again, why would I want to have faith in someone who basically hung about for three days and then went straight to paradise?

-'1 Corinthians 15:6 states that there were over 500 eyewitnesses to his resurrection.'-
So where are the witness statements, then? We don't have any of them. We only have some chapters written by people thirty years or more after his death. Not very reliable, that.

-' His blood was analyzed and it was alive- with only 24 chromosomes.'-
Where did they get this blood? Where's the evidence that this blood was ever found? Where's the evidence that is was tested? Where's the evidence that it was Jesus' blood? Where's the evidence that it was even old enough to be Jesus' blood? Where's the evidence that it only had 24 chromosomes? That video shows me nothing more than an anecdote that could very easily be completely and utterly made up. Show me evidence, and I might take it slightly more seriously.

-' This is scientific evidence that Jesus IS GOD.'-
No, it isn't. Even if it was Jesus' blood, all it would prove was that Jesus had a few things different about his blood. That's it.

Get back to me when you make more sense.

H


Admittedly, the quotes I posted were hastily chosen, because I couldn't be bothered to go look up exact quotage. My bad.


Jesusisthetruevine:

It does not matter what you say, sadly. The scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35) carnal people cannot understand (1 Cor 2:14) nothing in the bible is of any private interpretation (2 peter 1:20)

Secondly:

- Everyone is a sinner.-
What, even the new born babies?

-New born babies have no conscience, so they cannot be accounted for.

- Sin must be punished by death.-
Why? And tell me in your own words. Should we treat wearing clothing made from mixed materials, as the same as murder? Do they both get the same punishment? Should we treat thinking about having sex, the same as rape? Do THEY get the same punishment? Why?

Sin is the trangression of God's law (1 John 3:4) and is punished by death (Roman 6:23) As for your previous statements, some of the things in Jewish culture have been done away with. Ask yourself this. Is murder wrong? If yes, WHY? Should murderers be punished? Be honest. In marriage, sex is fine, but rape is the unlawful carnal knowledge of a woman by FORCE against their will, so it is wrong.

- God does not want anyone to perish.-
Are you sure?

-Yes. Ezekiel 33:11 says the Lord has NO PLEASURE in the death of the wicked, but that they return from the wicked way to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 says that God is NOT WILLING that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance. John 3:16 states that God so LOVED the world, that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but have everlasting life.

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

-Rejecting the commands of the prophets is going against God. You cannot just take any scripture at random and claim a discepancy. You must read the FULL chapter to know what is going on.

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

-The old testament they would be killed because it was an abomination. Deuteronomy 18:10 condemns it. Jesus offers mercy today if they break the law, but then repent and come to him in faith.

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

-Same as above.

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

-Striking mother and father goes against the 5th Commandment, Exodus 20:12.

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

-Adultery is against the 7th commandment, Exodus 20:14.

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

-Same.

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

-This goes against the 1st commandment, Exodus 20:3.

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

-Because God is the only source of salvation for the human race, he is longsuffering toward us (2 Peter 3:9) and wants us to follow him to be happy and to have eternal life.

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

(I particularly like that one kill children, simply for insulting someone!)

-You cannot assume that this is the correct interpretation. Elisha was just about to be sent to heaven, because he was a prophet, but the children knew what they were doing, so they mocked him in rebellion. Still, we are no longer under the old testament laws.

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

-Sin must be punished. Scoffers have a lack of understanding of Justice. Proverbs 28:5 says evil men understand not judgement. Proverbs 3:7 says be not wise in your own ways, but seek the Lord and repent.

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

-Babylon was a pagan nation who committed many abominations. God was trying to teach them that rebellion is futile.
Isaiah 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood. (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)
-The evildoers of the day had to pay for what they have done. Why do you think we have a criminal law system today? If there were no laws, everything would be chaos and people would do whatever they felt like. We are commanded to reprove evil (Ephesians 5:11)



I could go on, and on, and on.

-Maybe, but everything you will say will be refuted and taken out of context. And please, use the King James version of the bible. The other translations are false, as some have taken out complete verses.

- Jesus Christ paid that price for your sins.-
I didnt ask him to. I think torturing someone to death is a despicably evil thing to do, why would I want a man to do that for me, for something I may never do and have never done? And anyway, it wasnt much of a sacrifice, if at the end of it, he got to go straight to heaven and be with daddy.

Jesus died for us because we are ALL sinners. If you told one lie, you are a liar and deserve to perish in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8) and be seperate from God because he Is holy. One sin, no matter how small, deserves to be punished. James 2:10 says that if we offend in ONE point, we are guilty of ALL. Jesus Loves us and wanted us to be with him in paradise, not in flames. There is NO greater love story in the entire history of the world, my friend.


- By faith in what Christ has done, we can be saved.-
Really? Are you sure? What about the thousands, millions of people, all over the world, who have faith in him, but are starving to death? Being raped? Being murdered? Seeing their families raped and murdered? Being hit by natural disasters? But again, why would I want to have faith in someone who basically hung about for three days and then went straight to paradise?

Sin will not last forever. Revelation 21:4 says that when Christ comes back, his kingdom will have no end, all the tears and pain will be no more. Matthew 5 talks about the poor being blessed. These people may not have everything, but their life can become a testimony for others, even if they are poor, they can still rejoice in the truth of Jesus.


-1 Corinthians 15:6 states that there were over 500 eyewitnesses to his resurrection.-
So where are the witness statements, then? We dont have any of them. We only have some chapters written by people thirty years or more after his death. Not very reliable, that.

Josephus was a first century Jewish historian. I quote him from a website:

"About this time appeared Jesus, a wise man (if indeed it is right to call Him man; for He was a worker of astonishing deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with joy), and He drew to Himself many Jews (many also of Greeks. This was the Christ.) And when Pilate, at the denunciation of those that are foremost among us, had condemned Him to the cross, those who had first loved Him did not abandon Him (for He appeared to them alive again on the third day, the holy prophets having foretold this and countless other marvels about Him.) The tribe of Christians named after Him did not cease to this day." (Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 ,§63 )


- His blood was analyzed and it was alive- with only 24 chromosomes.-
Where did they get this blood? Wheres the evidence that this blood was ever found? Wheres the evidence that is was tested? Wheres the evidence that it was Jesus blood? Wheres the evidence that it was even old enough to be Jesus blood? Wheres the evidence that it only had 24 chromosomes? That video shows me nothing more than an anecdote that could very easily be completely and utterly made up. Show me evidence, and I might take it slightly more seriously.

If you go to arkdiscovery.com, under videos, Ron wyatt talks about his experience. He took it to an Israeli lab, not done himself. The results will show to the world in DUE TIME ( 1 Timothy 2:6) and everyone will get to see it along with the ark and ten commandment stones.

- This is scientific evidence that Jesus IS GOD.-
No, it isnt. Even if it was Jesus blood, all it would prove was that Jesus had a few things different about his blood. Thats it.

-You are wrong here. 24 Chromosomes is unique. It proves the virgin birth because Mary did not have intercourse. normal humans have 48, 23 come from both mother and father. His blood cells were ALIVE, so that proves he is God, because that defies all natural law. Everyone elses blood would be DEAD, never mind alive after 2000+ years. A Geneticist, Dr Eugene Dunkley, says that 24 chromosomes proves a virgin birth:

http://anchorstone.com/ASI-Newsletters/ ... pdate.html

Get back to me when you make more sense

-I explained everything to you. The scientific evidence above speaks for itself. I hope you find it in your heart to believe and accept Jesus as savior.



Whisperelmwood:

'It does not matter what you say, sadly. The scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35) carnal people cannot understand (1 Cor 2:14) nothing in the bible is of any private interpretation (2 peter 1:20)'

The bible is absolutely up for private interpretation, hence the many, many different types of Christianity and the many, many different personal interpretations by individuals within those different types of Christianity.

Without stating that only your particular brand of Christianity is the One True Brand, how do you account for these thousands of different interpretations, if indeed, the bible is not up for 'private interpretation'?

You can quote the bible at me all you want, but it is not going to impress. You have no proof that the bible is correct, you have no proof that your particular God exists. Until you can prove that YOUR god, and your god alone, exists, I will not accept the word of the bible as anything other than the ramblings of old, misogynistic, bigoted, ill-educated, middle-eastern shepherds from the iron age.
Now, for proof, I mean real world evidence, NOT scripture and not philosophy, theological or otherwise. Something a little more substantial than Pascal's Wager would be interesting.



'New born babies have no conscience, so they cannot be accounted for.' And 'Sin is the trangression of God's law (1 John 3:4) and is punished by death (Roman 6:23)'

This means what, exactly? How does one not account for new-borns? What does this mean? I'm guessing you're not Catholic, because according to that type of Christianity (by the way, the oldest of all the types currently still in use), every baby born still retains Original Sin and thus must be Christened. If the baby dies before Christening? I've heard some say 'purgatory', some say 'hell', some say 'heaven anyway', three different interpretations within one sect.

Anyway, I didn't say 'new born babies', I said 'babies'. At about the age of two, the child is still a baby, but by that point, they are learning about the self and are beginning to understand right from wrong. How does this figure into your 'everyone is a sinner'? Because, even if they are learning right from wrong, that doesn't mean they have the self control to stop themselves doing wrong, they are still learning, at that point, doing wrong teaches them what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. How does THIS figure into your 'everyone is a sinner'?

What about those with mental disabilities? People with certain forms of Asperger's or Autism have difficulty acting within the societal norm. Are these people 'sinners'?

What about those who have been so abused, physically, sexually, mentally, that doing something, ANYthing, to get the attention they so desperately need, even if what they do is considered 'wrong', how does THAT figure into your 'everyone is a sinner'?

Is your god so loving, so caring, so gentle, meek and mild, that he would send to hell, a young boy who has stolen, or committed criminal damage as a result of his sexual abuse, by some adult who was meant to protect him, to care for him? Is that child now a 'sinner'? For acting out, in the only way he knew, to get attention other than the predatory kind?

What about the homeless woman who resorts to stealing food, because she will starve otherwise? Is SHE now a 'sinner'?

What about the child that lived an entirely blameless life, that is one day murdered? Were they a 'sinner'? Ten years old, perfectly able to understand good and bad, right from wrong, lived a good life. Where would they fall in your 'everyone is a sinner'?

Using a blanket term, 'everyone is a sinner', is a waste of time when it comes to real life. Morals are incredibly subjective. Right and Wrong is incredibly subjective. Things considered 'bad' can, have been and will be done for 'good' reasons, or simply out of pure necessity. 'Good' things can, have been and will be done for 'bad' reasons.

To even suggest that these people deserve to die and burn in hell for eternity is abhorrent to me. To assert this based on a book that I have no belief in, is just ludicrous. To assert this based on a book that has no evidence for its validity, outside of itself, is even more so.

To suggest that I, as a normal person, who lives a good, blameless life, hurting no-one, helping when I can, am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell, is disgusting, absolutely insulting. Do you not understand why it is so?



'As for your previous statements, some of the things in Jewish culture have been done away with.'

Uh. Ok. And?



'Ask yourself this. Is murder wrong? If yes, WHY? Should murderers be punished? Be honest.'

Again, this subject is subjective. Murder for the sake of killing, murder for financial gain, murder in a fit of rage, murder during mugging/burglaries, murder in most situations is of course wrong. However, murder in self defence, which covers victims retaliating against mugging/burglaries and abuse of any kind, protecting ones self, family or friends, even protecting a stranger, soldiers at war, police at work and so on, is acceptable.

The former is not acceptable, because it is in direct opposition to societal norm. In purely evolutionary terms, killing other members of your immediate tribe is detrimental to not only the trust, respect and empathy your fellow tribesmen feel for you, but it also endangers the tribe's ability to flourish. If a member of the tribe kills indiscriminately, what is to stop that member from killing everyone, eventually? That member puts in jeopardy the whole tribe, by extinguishing genes that should have been passed on to the next generation and weakening the tribe as a whole, emotionally as well as physically.

Any member of the tribe that can overcome the emotional attachment and empathy that prevents most people from hurting one-another, is a dangerous element. Humans have evolved as a gregarious, tribal species, murder is something that goes against that, it helps no-one but the murderer. Hence, we have developed the group understanding that killing another member of our tribe is 'wrong'.

These days, it is expanded with the societal 'right to live', murderers take away that right. They take a life that could have been long and fruitful; they remove a personality, a set of experiences and knowledge, a set of genes that could have been wonderful. They take away everything that that life could have been.

In my view, we are living the only lives we have. There is nothing for us after we die, except nothingness. This is it. We have our almost-century of life, of experiences, of giving, loving, hating, learning and passing on of knowledge, and then that's it. To take away the only life we have, to force an end to someone who could have gone on for decades more, for years more, or for only months, weeks or even days more, is wrong, because it puts an end to the only life there is.
I do think a murderer should be punished. I think murderers should be locked up for the rest of their lives, to waste away in a cell, with little to do and no freedom to do it in. They took away the life, the freedom, of another, so they, in turn, should have no life and no freedom. They should be left to stew in the knowledge that they did this to themselves.

I believe this, understanding that once a person dies, there is nothing. No ultimate judgement, no heaven or hell. As I said, this is the only life we have; this is the only life anyone has. Once we die, that's it.

I also don't think hell is viable. Even if they have murdered, sentencing them to ETERNITY in hell is excessive. Eternity burning in a lake of fire or eternity without god's presence, it makes no matter, this is wrong. It is torture, pure and simple, and torture is a reprehensible act. Any god or gods that advocates sending anyone, for whatever act, to hell for eternity, in my view, is not a good, not a loving and not a just god.



'In marriage, sex is fine, but rape is the unlawful carnal knowledge of a woman by FORCE against their will, so it is wrong.'

I'm glad we agree on the rape thing. However, it didn't answer my question, which is reproduced for you here:

'Should we treat thinking about having sex, the same as rape? Do THEY get the same punishment? Why?'

Do these two sins get the same punishment, and why? Considering there really is only one punishment, (being sent to hell for eternity), I am at a loss to understand why they are both sins. Thinking about doing something, is not the same as actually doing it. Why should they both get the same punishment?

Also, WHY is it wrong to have sex outside of wedlock? I understand why they added that law in the original text, but why do YOU think it is so? What is YOUR interpretation?



'Jesus died for us because we are ALL sinners.'

Again. I didn't ask him to. I take responsibility for my own life, for my own actions. I do not want and would not expect someone else to take responsibility for them for me. See my above comments on sin and being a sinner.



'If you told one lie, you are a liar and deserve to perish in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8) and be seperate from God because he Is holy.'

Then your god is not a just or loving god, he is a petty, vindictive god. Morals are subjective, to treat a lie told because it prevents suffering, the same as a lie told because it causes suffering as the same thing, and to give them both the same punishment (and for that punishment to be ETERNAL TORTURE!) is about as wrong as it gets. I reject anyone or anything that acts like this.



'One sin, no matter how small, deserves to be punished. '

Again, your god is a petty and vindictive being, if it acts like this.



'James 2:10 says that if we offend in ONE point, we are guilty of ALL.'

Again, treating thinking about having sex with someone you are not married too, as the same as murdering someone, and giving them both the same punishment, is NOT the act of a loving, generous and just god, it is the action of a petty and vindictive being.



'Jesus Loves us and wanted us to be with him in paradise, not in flames. There is NO greater love story in the entire history of the world, my friend.'

If he loves us and wants us to be with him in paradise, perhaps he can offer up some real proof of his existence? Like he did for Doubting Thomas? No? Never mind then.



'Sin will not last forever. Revelation 21:4 says that when Christ comes back, his kingdom will have no end, all the tears and pain will be no more.'

Again, this doesn't actually answer the question I posed. Here it is again for you, so you can actually address what I asked, rather than an imaginary question that I didn't:

'What about the thousands, millions of people, all over the world, who have faith in him, but are starving to death? Being raped? Being murdered? Seeing their families raped and murdered? Being hit by natural disasters?'

What does sin not lasting forever have to do with the suffering these people are going through RIGHT NOW? How does your loving, just, caring, gentle god explain away this suffering? But I see from your next point, actually, that you've made a rather crap apologetic for the suffering.



'Matthew 5 talks about the poor being blessed.'

I'm pretty sure they'd disagree with you.



'These people may not have everything, but their life can become a testimony for others, even if they are poor, they can still rejoice in the truth of Jesus.'

'A testimony for others'?? THATS your answer for their suffering? This once again proves nothing more than that your god is despicable. He will allow millions of people on the planet to suffer, JUST TO SHOW OTHERS WHAT IT COULD BE LIKE? How do you not get how disgusting that is?



'Josephus was a first century Jewish historian. I quote him from a website:'

Josephus has been debunked by pretty much everyone, even including most Theologians. Also, he wasn't an eye witness, like I actually asked for (again, you are not answering my actual questions.) I will also say that, considering the fantastic things Jesus was supposed to have done (eg; water-to-wine, walking on water, bringing the dead back to life, healing, feeding the five-thousand etc) you'd think there were FAR MORE people writing about him, even in passing, than have actually been found in history. He was supposed to be a big thing, everyone would have been talking about him. Other writings from his day and before, have been found, quite a bit in fact, but there seems to be this huge gaping hole where anything about Jesus should be.



' His blood was analyzed and it was alive- with only 24 chromosomes.
If you go to arkdiscovery.com, under videos, Ron wyatt talks about his experience. He took it to an Israeli lab, not done himself. The results will show to the world in DUE TIME ( 1 Timothy 2:6) and everyone will get to see it along with the ark and ten commandment stones.'

I feel I will have to repeat myself.

This 24 chromosome business is nothing but a big, fat, Christian lie. Where is the evidence? For any of it? Where is the evidence that the site they picked out as the death-site of Jesus, was actually the real death-site? Where is the evidence that the blood apparently found there, actually was found there? Where is the evidence that the blood was 'alive'? Where is the evidence that it had been there for long enough? Where is the evidence that it is actually Jesus' blood? Where is the evidence that it actually has only 24 chromosomes? Where is the evidence that proves 24 chromosomes makes it in any way godly? Where's the evidence that it wasn't a freak of nature? Where's the evidence that it wasn't some form of panspermia?

Oh, also, on top of all that, where is the evidence that Jesus was actually real? You have to prove that one, before you can then go on and answer all of the other questions.

I could probably come up with many more unanswered and unanswerable questions, but at the moment, that's all I feel like.

I would also like to point a few things out.

Firstly, blood is not alive in the first place.

Secondly, humans would not survive the gestation period with only 24 chromosomes.

Thirdly, humans only have 23 chromosome pairs.

Fourthly, anyone who could show this blood to be real, would gain millions of converts overnight. Why have they not shared this discovery?

To put it bluntly, do you realise how incredibly gullible it makes you look, when you profess a belief in this? There is absolutely NO evidence for this ludicrous anecdote. There is in fact, ONLY the anecdote. What's to say the man wasn't lying? I mean, seriously?

Oh, you'll be given all the answers IN DUE TIME. Really? You're satisfied with that? In Due Time? It's been a fair few years since this allegedly happened. With the advancements in technology, all of that information should have been available by now. In fact, if these things had been proven, the scientists working on it would have won a Nobel Prize! In fact, if these scientists, or in deed ANYONE could show that they have some blood, with only 24 chromosomes, that was 'alive' after 2000 years? They'd win every known scientific prize. Why haven't we seen this happen yet?
Ah, that's right. Because it didn't. Because it's nothing than a made-up story. Ah well.



'I explained everything to you. The scientific evidence above speaks for itself.'

No. You didn't and it doesn't.



'I hope you find it in your heart to believe and accept Jesus as savior.'

Once someone shows me that he was real, not as a person, (that I am willing to accept), but as the 'Son of God', then I may start to consider it. But so far, there has been zero proof of Jesus' divinity or the Christian god.

H



I'll keep y'all appraised of any replies etc.
Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:01 pm
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Aught3ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 4290Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:36 amLocation: New Zealand Gender: Male

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Where do you get the time for all these debates?
You seem to do pretty well, are these debates done in public?
Wanderer, there is no path, the path is made by walking.
Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:02 am
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ImprobableJoeUser avatarPosts: 6195Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:24 pm

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Why would a Christian quote their fairy tale book, and assume that a non-Christian would take their delusion seriously?
Come visit my blog! There will be punch and pie!
Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:24 am
WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Aught3 wrote:Where do you get the time for all these debates?
You seem to do pretty well, are these debates done in public?


A handful are public, but this one is being done through the YouTube message system.
I really don't debate that often c.c I just have some time atm, and this guy decided to message me out of the blue XD


ImprobableJoe wrote:Why would a Christian quote their fairy tale book, and assume that a non-Christian would take their delusion seriously?


Yeah, I've been trying to figure that one out >>
Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:05 pm
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WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

He replied and didn't address any of my questions, of course.


Jesusisthetruevine:

Everything you said is extremely flawed. God is still not willing that any should perish. The evidence is overwhelming for God's existence. The blood test DOES prove Jesus is God, whether you want to accept the truth or not. You can be sure that It will be seen by the world in the future. As for your comments about the blood test not being authentic, you are severly mistaken. NORMAL BLOOD IS ALWAYS DEAD. A genticist even said that 24 chromosomes proves a virgin birth. Get it? Jesus blood is NOT DEAD, because he Is God, and is is absolutely abnormal for that to happen. It will be shown in DUE TIME, the world is about to experience great tribulation as the world has never seen. Then the time will come when the results and the ten commandments to be shown. If you have no patience, that is your own doing. The Bible is NOT up for "Private interpretation" because there is only ONE MEANING. I don't care if there are 1000's of denominations. If you read in Peter it will say that people who do not understand the scriptures interpret their own way, to their own destruction. You have to study before you come to a conclusion. As for your claims for Josephus, you are horribly deluded. If you reject history, then you reject most knowledge. Again, you can't trust the world's mass opinions on an issue. Seems like all the scoffers want their own religion and reject the evidence because they do not want to believe. Once again, you are blinded from the truth. Hell is NOT ETERNAL TORTURE, as some verses seem to indicate. This came from greek myth. Revelation 21:4 says all pain will be destroyed forever. If there are people who are suffering in a hell, that would be a lie. Please go to HELLTRUTH.com and see the truth for yourself. The evidence speaks for itself. Please view these sites then to see the truth: (You can also view my favorite videos on my channel)

Drdino.com- Creation Science Evangelism
Halos.com- Scientific evidence for earth's instant creation (polonium 218 halos)
orionfdn.org- Big bang theory exposed
Discoveries08.org - This one deals with the archaeology
Arkdiscovery.com- Deals with the 5 major archaeological finds of all time
Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:05 pm
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GoodKatUser avatarPosts: 776Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:07 pmLocation: Hell (South Carolina)

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Did you tell him that "DrDino" is convicted fraudster Kent Hovind?
My discussions are a search for truth, and for that search to be honest, all parties involved must be open to the prospect of being wrong.
What is there to gain in guessing about that which cannot be known?
Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:30 pm
WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

GoodKat wrote:Did you tell him that "DrDino" is convicted fraudster Kent Hovind?


I've not had a chance to reply yet - but I certainly will do.
Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:53 pm
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PulsarUser avatarPosts: 872Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:52 pmLocation: Belgium

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

If you go to arkdiscovery.com, under videos, Ron wyatt talks about his experience.

Ah yes, Ron Wyatt, the self-described archaeologist who claimed to have found

-Noah's Ark, 18.25 miles south of Mount Ararat.
-The post-flood house, grave markers and tombs of Noah and his wife.
-The location of Sodom and Gomorrah.
-The Tower of Babel, in Central Turkey.
-The site of the Israelites' crossing of the Red Sea, in the Gulf of Aqaba.
-Chariot wheels of the army of Pharaoh at the bottom of the Red Sea.
-The true site of Mt. Sinai, in Saudi Arabia at Jabal al Lawz.
-A chamber in a maze of tunnels under Jerusalem with artifacts from Solomon's Temple.
-The true site of the Crucifixion.
-The Ark of the Covenant.
-The original stones of the Ten Commandments.
-And indeed, the blood of Jesus.

This guy had enough imagination to fill 15 Indiana Jones movies, though even Lucas would hesitate to turn these wild fantasies into a script.
Now, how utterly braindead do you have to be to even consider these claims? Heck, even Answers in Genesis called Wyatt a fraud, which they only do for real nutcases. :D
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

Science doesn’t know everything … religion doesn’t know ANYTHING.
Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:08 pm
DaealisUser avatarPosts: 235Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:48 pmLocation: Tampere

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

The closest to some "evidence" of an ark that any site has is as follows(out of memory by some creatard linking me 'facts'):
-There are some fossilized wood pieces(claimed to be from the side of the ark)
-Few stones that have a human-carved hole in them(claimed to be the stabilizing system & anchor of the ark)
-A boat-like shape on one ridge, with the walls sticking up compared to the center portion. Several other such formations are found all around the world, caused by natural landslides.

And that's about it. That is the closest they've come. Stones with holes, petrified wood and a natural landslide-formation. I'm not sure if that site has anything more to offer(didn't even bother opening it, as the global flood story(I'd say even a regional flood) is impossible to begin with).

I noticed this fellow didn't adress your points even from the first post and you didn't point them all out either. Everything that I'd see as the core problem of what you pointed out, he accidentally forgot to quote and rebut. For example, you asked if it's right for the punishment of mixing fabrics and murder to be the same, and got no answer.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
- Albert Einstein
Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:09 pm
monitoradiationPosts: 566Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:05 pm

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

I think it is now abundantly clear that mentioning Josephus in any "historicity of jeezuz" conversation should be included in Godwin's law; perhaps as a corollary or something.
Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:20 pm
NetheralianUser avatarPosts: 357Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:13 pmLocation: Underwater world Gender: Cake

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

I love this comment:

Hell is NOT ETERNAL TORTURE, as some verses seem to indicate. This came from greek myth. Revelation 21:4 says all pain will be destroyed forever. If there are people who are suffering in a hell, that would be a lie.


Lets go a raping and pillaging! Idiot...
Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:16 pm
WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Hell is NOT ETERNAL TORTURE, as some verses seem to indicate. This came from greek myth. Revelation 21:4 says all pain will be destroyed forever. If there are people who are suffering in a hell, that would be a lie.


Bold and Large mine.

Oh no no - THIS is the bit that gets me. He explicitly tells me that the Bible is NOT up for interpretation.. and then goes and MAKES an interpretation, simply because he doesn't like what hte Bible actually explicitly says right there.
Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:56 pm
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WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

My reply. Took my time, as I wanted to investigate those websites he linked at the end of his last post.

'Everything you said is extremely flawed.'

Is it? Show me where you think I am flawed and explain to me why you think so.



'God is still not willing that any should perish.'

If your god is so unwilling, why are there still people dying? Your god is supposed to be all-powerful; surely he would be able to put a stop to all the pain and suffering of the world? If he's unwilling, but continues to let it happen, then I stand by my statement that he is vindictive and petty.



'The evidence is overwhelming for God's existence.'

Is it? I haven't seen any convincing evidence at all. Show me some, and then we can get talking.



'The blood test DOES prove Jesus is God, whether you want to accept the truth or not.'

No, it doesn't. If indeed that blood were real, and if indeed it had been tested, all it would prove was that the blood was weird. Or perhaps, that actually it was Chimpanzee blood. (Yes, apparently Chimpanzees only have 24 chromosome pairs!)

Blood that has a strange amount of chromosome's, or something else weird, ONLY PROVES THAT IT IS WEIRD BLOOD. It DOES NOT prove any connection to god, it DOES NOT prove that god is real.

It is not a case of not wanting to accept the truth; I would LOVE for something to be found that proves the existence of the supernatural! Unfortunately, there is nothing that does. And your weird blood certainly doesn't.

For your blood to be accepted anywhere, it needs to answer all these questions:

Where is the evidence that the site they picked out as the death-site of Jesus, was actually the real death-site? Where is the evidence that the blood apparently found there, actually was found there? Where is the evidence that the blood was 'alive'? Where is the evidence that it had been there for long enough? Where is the evidence that it is actually Jesus' blood? Where is the evidence that it actually has only 24 chromosomes? Where is the evidence that proves 24 chromosomes makes it in any way godly? Where's the evidence that it wasn't a freak of nature? Where's the evidence that it wasn't some form of panspermia?



'You can be sure that It will be seen by the world in the future.'

How can I be sure of this? As I said in my previous post, if this was real, the scientists behind it should come forward, because, by any rights, this type of discovery would make them world famous and convert millions of people overnight. It would be the proof so many agnostics are looking for, as well as the proof current Christians want.



'As for your comments about the blood test not being authentic, you are severly mistaken.'
Evidence please.


'A genticist even said that 24 chromosomes proves a virgin birth. Get it?'
Evidence please.


'Jesus blood is NOT DEAD, because he Is God, and is is absolutely abnormal for that to happen.'
Evidence please.


'It will be shown in DUE TIME,'
Evidence please.


'the world is about to experience great tribulation as the world has never seen.'
Evidence please.


'Then the time will come when the results and the ten commandments to be shown.'
Pardon?



'If you have no patience, that is your own doing.'

I have patience; I am simply unwilling to believe in something without evidence. My mind is open, it is simply not so open that it risks my brain falling out, as yours apparently has done.



'The Bible is NOT up for "Private interpretation" because there is only ONE MEANING.'

Yes, it really is. How do you come to this 'one meaning' of yours? I have a feeling it will be different from the 'one meaning' your fellows have. What denomination ARE you, anyway?



'I don't care if there are 1000's of denominations.'

That is quite obvious. However, the simple fact that there ARE thousands of denominations, means that the bible IS UP FOR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION. You have your own personal interpretation, exactly like every single other Christian on the face of this planet has THEIR personal interpretation. There is NO getting around this fact, whether you like it or not.



'If you read in Peter it will say that people who do not understand the scriptures interpret their own way, to their own destruction.'

How do you KNOW yours is the true way? Love the 'One True Scotsman' fallacy, by the way.



'You have to study before you come to a conclusion.'

Ah, so your personal studies have lead towards your personal interpretation? It's still a personal interpretation, even if it's based on readings by other theologians, you pick which interpretation you like, or makes the most sense to you. Hence, PERSONAL INTERPRETATION.



'As for your claims for Josephus, you are horribly deluded.'

Really? Thanks for letting me know. Should I go tell all the historians and theologians that they are deluded, too? The parts in Josephus' writings about Jesus have been debunked. Look it up. Try reading something outside of your little box. Could be enlightening.



'If you reject history, then you reject most knowledge.'

Whoever said I was rejecting history? I am simply letting you know that Josephus is not as credible as you believe he is.



'Again, you can't trust the world's mass opinions on an issue.'

Certainly not when it comes to things like religion, no. But again, where is your evidence that YOU are right about Josephus, and the historians and theologians who debunked him are wrong?
Evidence please.



'Seems like all the scoffers want their own religion and reject the evidence because they do not want to believe.'

Scoffers? Oh, you mean Atheists? Am I going to have to give you the dictionary definition? It looks like I am. Oh dear.

1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.
2. A godless person.

There is no room in that explanation for religion. So, ever so sorry, but we don't disbelieve in your god, just so we can replace it with our own version. And we certainly don't reject the non-existent evidence because we don't want to believe. We reject the non-existent evidence, BECAUSE IT IS NON-EXISTENT. As in, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE.



'Once again, you are blinded from the truth.'

What truth? You are yet to give me anything even resembling 'truth', so how can I be blinded from it?


'Hell is NOT ETERNAL TORTURE, as some verses seem to indicate.'

Oh look, a PERSONAL INTERPRETATION. If verses are describing it as eternal torture, and you've decided that in fact, thats wrong, then you've made a personal interpretation, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THEIST ON THE PLANET. See? The bible IS up for personal interpretation.



'Revelation 21:4 says all pain will be destroyed forever. If there are people who are suffering in a hell, that would be a lie. Please go to HELLTRUTH.com and see the truth for yourself.'

Looks like personal interpretation to me.



'Drdino.com- Creation Science Evangelism'

You realise Kent Hovind is in jail, serving time for Tax Fraud, right? He also isn't a scientist, or a teacher of sciences. He's crap. High school kids can debunk the crap he tried to peddle. Your first link is a load of bull.


'Halos.com- Scientific evidence for earth's instant creation (polonium 218 halos)'

Load of bull, once again. Creation Science trying to pass off as real science. Gentry is debunked here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos/ So your second link is also a load of bull.


'orionfdn.org- Big bang theory exposed'

I refused to read this site, based purely on its title. 'Evolutionists work to suppress collapse of Big Bang Cosmology & the emergence of the new COSMIC CENTER UNIVERSE Model that points to the Throne of God at the nearby Center of the Universe.'
Evolution has NOTHING to do with cosmology or the Big Bang. Hence, that site is worthless, right from the start. Your third link is a load of bull.



'Discoveries08.org - This one deals with the archaeology'

This is hard listening, the guy is boring as hell. Seriously. He's also a Seventh Day Adventist, which other Christians have found objectionable: http://exposingadventism.com/blogs/gjor ... rk-finley/
Jesus Christ!, nearly a third of the first 59min video is nothing but 'I WILL SHOW YOU' nonsense. OhgodsUGH this is boring. This guy is the most boring Evangelist I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. He's also talking out of his ass.
Your fourth link is a load of bull.



'Arkdiscovery.com- Deals with the 5 major archaeological finds of all time'

You realise this is the same guy of whom I asked all those 'Evidence please!' questions, right? He's also been debunked by bloody everyone and their mothers. Seriously.
Your fifth and final link, is a load of bull. Surprise.

Any chance you'll answer ANY of the questions I posed in my previous posts? Or are you going to continue to dodge them?

H
Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:35 pm
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ebbixxUser avatarPosts: 227Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:33 amLocation: Nüå Jøïzæð

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

ImprobableJoe wrote:Why would a Christian quote their fairy tale book, and assume that a non-Christian would take their delusion seriously?


"Hope springs eternal in the human breast:
Man never is, but always To be Blest."
- Alexander Pope

They're not doing it for you, they're doing it because God says so, and maybe they're looking too for those riches piled up in heaven, for converting even one heathen to their ways, or just for "spreading" the gospel, whatever the end result may be.
Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:04 pm
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ebbixxUser avatarPosts: 227Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:33 amLocation: Nüå Jøïzæð

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Whisperelmwood wrote:'orionfdn.org- Big bang theory exposed'

I refused to read this site, based purely on its title. 'Evolutionists work to suppress collapse of Big Bang Cosmology & the emergence of the new COSMIC CENTER UNIVERSE Model that points to the Throne of God at the nearby Center of the Universe.'


Is that next to the Cheezus Intergalactic Mall, by any chance? I think I drove by that on my way home from Connecticut last weekend.
Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:16 pm
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WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Ugh. This is now getting old.

No. Eveything you said Still does NOT change the evidence. None of those people have be debunked because people are biased. The truth will never be changed. Chimps have 48 chromosomes. A fern has 480. An opossum, redwood tree and kidney bean all have the same number. Are they triplets??? Give me a break. That is silly. Piltdown man have been a proven myth. Amoebas have even more chromosomes than we do. Dr Barney Maddox has already stated that Evolution between them cannot happen because of too many genetic boundaries. I recommend you visit these site: ( They have a lot of info)

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/ ( He offers a challenge to skeptics)

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolutio ... g_hoax.htm

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolutio ... x/4000.htm

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/science ... alism.html

Also, These videos shows Giant skeletal remains. Dont say there are not real. They are. The facts will never be changed, and proves Genesis 6:4 THERE WERE GIANTS IN THE EARTH IN THOSE DAYS - proven by science!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt313qq3h6M&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgnvt1Y ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCyEkVvbkAM
Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:01 am
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MycerniusUser avatarPosts: 32Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:33 pmLocation: Nuneaton, UK Gender: Time Lord

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Has he actually got around to prove that his sky daddy exists and no others do, or does still quote scripture as evidence? Maybe you should quote some scripture from other religions back at him. That will really bug the shit out of him. I've done it with Egyptian myth to a fundie
Only sheep need a shepherd - Anon
Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:25 am
WhisperelmwoodUser avatarPosts: 127Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:38 amLocation: Chippenham, UK Gender: Female

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Mycernius wrote:Has he actually got around to prove that his sky daddy exists and no others do, or does still quote scripture as evidence? Maybe you should quote some scripture from other religions back at him. That will really bug the shit out of him. I've done it with Egyptian myth to a fundie


He's not even TRIED to prove his, and ONLY, his sky daddy exists.

I may just try that, see how well it goes down. Though this guy is quickly losing his funny.
Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:07 pm
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HsitirbPosts: 15Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:11 amLocation: Basingstoke, Hampshire, UK

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Mycernius wrote:Has he actually got around to prove that his sky daddy exists and no others do, or does still quote scripture as evidence? Maybe you should quote some scripture from other religions back at him. That will really bug the shit out of him. I've done it with Egyptian myth to a fundie

Whisperelmwood wrote:He's not even TRIED to prove his, and ONLY, his sky daddy exists.

I may just try that, see how well it goes down. Though this guy is quickly losing his funny.



I guess you might quote Gen 6:4 back at him, asking him how many sons The Christian Deity had...

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.


Of course, he'd probably come back with something along the lines that "son" in this sense is a more general term than when it's used with respect to Jesus, The Christian Deity's only begotten son.

...Oh, and I guess that would have been sex outside marriage that those sons of God had. There seems to be plenty of that in the bible...

A fairly logical reading of that passage would be that there were "great men" of yore (mapping the "giants" of the old days to the "men of renown" of the later days). But since we're not allowed our own interpretation of the bible, we'll just have to make do with his :roll:

And in regard to his youtube video claiming 'archaeological evidence' for giants, it might be worth noting several interesting (and clever) hoaxes pop up when you google "nephilim photo" }:) Pity I couldn't find the one in the first video he linked - maybe you'll have more luck!

(Not sure what's going on at the top of this post - wouldn't let me post a quote within a quote....has some new setting been enabled?)
Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:55 am
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Aught3ModeratorUser avatarPosts: 4290Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:36 amLocation: New Zealand Gender: Male

Post Re: Vs Jesusisthetruevine - unsolicited, decided to debate me.

Yeah, apparently you can now only post one quote at a time. I guess it's to stop the quote pyramids that occasionally built up on the other thread. You could always make a suggestion to Sporky if you think it needs changing.
Wanderer, there is no path, the path is made by walking.
Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:44 am
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