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thenexttodie's mind-reading

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thenexttodie's mind-reading
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SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Sparhafoc wrote:
thenexttodie wrote:Sparhafoc, you cannot support the legalization of something and then say you do not support the thing that you wanted to be make legal. It doesn't work that way.



Thenexttodie, you don't know what you're talking about, so instead of spouting inane claptrap, it would behoove you first to get a fucking clue then proceed.

No legislation has been forwarded to kill foetuses.

What you are talking about is Ireland's new abortion law.

Now, you are labouring under the false notion, or hiding behind it, that such a law would allow the termination of a foetus a day before birth.

This is complete bollocks.

In reality, the draft legislation concerns termination of embryos up to 12 weeks gestational age (i.e. first trimester), and 24 weeks in exceptional circumstances.

For the former, you would need to know what that really means. You don't; you have some woolly metamagical notions from the Iron Age inhabiting the part of your brain that hundreds of years of science should occupy. I am going to spend time educating you in this thread, but first I am letting you dig the holes I will later help you out of.

For the latter 'exceptional circumstances', I will simply return the idea back to you to consider. A woman who wants to have her baby develops a serious medical condition which means that if she continues with her pregnancy not only will she die, but obviously the foetus will die with her. In such circumstances, one life (that of a partly developed foetus) cannot ethically supersede the life of the human adult who is a full member of society, and who has parents, siblings, a spouse, co-workers etc, especially when inaction (denial of termination) will lead to them both dying anyway.

Not in the slightest bit ironically, this is exactly the circumstances (with numerous cases of women dying) which lead to Ireland overturning their previous anti-abortion stance.

So how about you engage honestly with this and forward some reasoning whereby you either argue the woman should be left to die along with the "unborn baby", or you explicitly acknowledge that there are valid circumstances in which termination of a foetus is ethically justified.



Explicitly acknowledged.

So are you now part of the Baby Murderers Club, TNTD?

Or do you appreciate that your wilful flights of prejudiced fantasy about Teh Evul Atheists were really just a reflection of how little thought you'd given the subject matter?
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:10 am
thenexttodiePosts: 901Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Sparhafoc, I have answered your question the exact same way I would have answered it 10 years ago. I have probably already have answered it else where on this same forum, even.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:12 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 901Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Also this has nothing to do with the passing of Ireland's new abortion law, which you were celebrating in another thread.

The new law allows for women have their unborn babies killed, even when the life of the mother is not at risk. And you support that, correct? Or were you mislead?
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:30 pm
psikhrangkurPosts: 148Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:30 pm Gender: Pinecone

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/The- ... stitution/

In addition, a majority of Assembly Members recommended by ballot the following reasons, for which termination of pregnancy should be lawful in Ireland

Real and substantial physical risk to the life of the woman (99%)
Real and substantial risk to the life of the woman by suicide (95%)
Serious risk to the physical health of the woman (93%)
Serious risk to the mental health of the woman (90%)
Serious risk to the health of the woman (91%)
Risk to the physical health of the woman (79%)
Risk to the mental health of the woman (78%)
Risk to the health of the woman (78%)
Pregnancy as result of rape (89%)
The unborn child has a foetal abnormality that is likely to result in death before or shortly after birth (89%)
The unborn child has a significant foetal abnormality that is not likely to result in death before or shortly after birth (80%)
Socio-economic reasons (72%)
For all the above reasons Members made recommendations as to any gestational limits if any which should apply


Since the topic of why Ireland's laws were changed came up.
Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:52 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:Sparhafoc, I have answered your question the exact same way I would have answered it 10 years ago. I have probably already have answered it else where on this same forum, even.



With all due respect, TNTD - you were quite content indicating you were absolute when it came to the question of abortion - you made no caveats.

That's actually expressly why this caveat arose - to plumb whether or not you were being accurate in that notion, or whether you harbored more compassion and humanity than you were letting on.

Believe it or not, I assumed correctly that you wouldn't want a scenario where women die because society has deemed all forms of abortion illegal.

Ergo, despite the incredible displays of appendage gesticulation, you actually agree with the primary motivation for the change in Ireland's laws regarding abortion.

Had you engaged on the level rather than trying to make me out as some kind of baby-murderer, we could have found this out without all the nonsensical palaver.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:47 am
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:Also this has nothing to do with the passing of Ireland's new abortion law, which you were celebrating in another thread.


Whereas, it clearly does, and I have already in this thread shown you wrong in your rejection of that.

Of course, you are merely misinformed, and in ignorance making claims about a topic you should spend some time informing yourself about prior to making such erroneous assertions.

In reality, a series of incidents resulted in women with serious medical conditions dying due to Ireland's abortion laws preventing them getting the medical procedure they needed to save their lives.

You could try looking it up... or you could be lazy and demand I do it for you. Either way, you'll be shown wrong. Presumably, you would then in about 4 pages pretend you'd always acknowledged this fact and claim you'd talked about it all your life.


thenexttodie wrote:The new law allows for women have their unborn babies killed, even when the life of the mother is not at risk. And you support that, correct? Or were you mislead?


No unborn babies can ever be killed, TNTD - repeating an error just suggests you are either unwilling or incapable of learning, or don't want to engage in reality. If the latter, that's fine. But don't expect reasonable people to join you in your descent into fantasy.

I have already made my position extremely clear. I find it amusing though how you continually seek to rewrite what I've already written as though you're achieving some startling insight - mind-reading - when all you're doing is summarizing my own words with somewhat less clarity and efficacy than I had already employed.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:52 am
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

psikhrangkur wrote:https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/The-Eighth-Amendment-of-the-Constitution/

In addition, a majority of Assembly Members recommended by ballot the following reasons, for which termination of pregnancy should be lawful in Ireland

Real and substantial physical risk to the life of the woman (99%)
Real and substantial risk to the life of the woman by suicide (95%)
Serious risk to the physical health of the woman (93%)
Serious risk to the mental health of the woman (90%)
Serious risk to the health of the woman (91%)
Risk to the physical health of the woman (79%)
Risk to the mental health of the woman (78%)
Risk to the health of the woman (78%)
Pregnancy as result of rape (89%)
The unborn child has a foetal abnormality that is likely to result in death before or shortly after birth (89%)
The unborn child has a significant foetal abnormality that is not likely to result in death before or shortly after birth (80%)
Socio-economic reasons (72%)
For all the above reasons Members made recommendations as to any gestational limits if any which should apply


Since the topic of why Ireland's laws were changed came up.



It's really quite rude of you to put up facts TNTD will be obliged to ignore!

Didn't your mother teach you any manners? :D
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:57 am
thenexttodiePosts: 901Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Sparhafoc wrote:
In addition, a majority of Assembly Members recommended by ballot the following reasons, for which termination of pregnancy should be lawful in Ireland

Real and substantial physical risk to the life of the woman (99%)
Real and substantial risk to the life of the woman by suicide (95%)
Serious risk to the physical health of the woman (93%)
Serious risk to the mental health of the woman (90%)
Serious risk to the health of the woman (91%)
Risk to the physical health of the woman (79%)
Risk to the mental health of the woman (78%)
Risk to the health of the woman (78%)
Pregnancy as result of rape (89%)
The unborn child has a foetal abnormality that is likely to result in death before or shortly after birth (89%)
The unborn child has a significant foetal abnormality that is not likely to result in death before or shortly after birth (80%)
Socio-economic reasons (72%)
For all the above reasons Members made recommendations as to any gestational limits if any which should apply


Since the topic of why Ireland's laws were changed came up.


It's really quite rude of you to put up facts TNTD will be obliged to ignore!

Didn't your mother teach you any manners? :D[/quote]

This is not what you think it is, Sparhafoc. Click on the link and read it again.
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:49 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:This is not what you think it is, Sparhafoc. Click on the link and read it again.


Don't play inane games with me, TNTD.

If you want to make a contention, then fucking make it. I'm hardly about to engage in a guessing game about what you're thinking I'm thinking when this entire thread is mocking your contention that you know better than everyone else what they're thinking.

Not only do I already know perfectly well what that link is, but this latest attempt to obfuscate is STILL not going to work.

I already cited a case example of the kind of situation that the dysfunctional law was causing and asked you to educate yourself prior to continuing this conversation. It resulted in the death of a woman who could have been saved, and yes, the death of her 'unborn baby' too.

Clearly, this all amounts to 'too much work' for you so you instead think it wise to keep asserting bullshit you just spouted as if it were fact and pretending you know what you're talking about when you really come across as not having the faintest idea about any of the relevant threads of a topic about abortion, Ireland, law, or morality.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:19 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 901Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:Also this has nothing to do with the passing of Ireland's new abortion law, which you were celebrating in another thread.


Sparhafoc wrote:Whereas, it clearly does, and I have already in this thread shown you wrong in your rejection of that.

Of course, you are merely misinformed, and in ignorance making claims about a topic you should spend some time informing yourself about prior to making such erroneous assertions.

In reality, a series of incidents resulted in women with serious medical conditions dying due to Ireland's abortion laws preventing them getting the medical procedure they needed to save their lives.



Well no, I dont think there was a series incidents that resulted in multiple women dying in Ireland. I think you just read some pro abortion propaganda which said this and you just assumed it was true. I know there was 1 case in which a doctor thought or said that the baby still had a heartbeat, when it was actually dead and the mother later died from septic shock. It was quite a while ago, I think in 1986. That is a tragedy.

Sparhafoc, do you think it is ever wrong for a woman to terminate her fetus?
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:59 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 901Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Sparhafoc wrote:[

I already cited a case example of the kind of situation that the dysfunctional law was causing


WHERE?
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:04 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:
Sparhafoc wrote:[

I already cited a case example of the kind of situation that the dysfunctional law was causing


WHERE?



IN THIS THREAD!
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:08 pm
thenexttodiePosts: 901Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:59 pm Gender: Male

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Spahafoc, Is there anything else you would like me to answer or clarify?
“..the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.” Tolstoy
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:17 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:Well no, I dont think there was a series incidents that resulted in multiple women dying in Ireland.


Ahh I see.

So you're just misinformed and lazy?


thenexttodie wrote: I think you just read some pro abortion propaganda which said this and you just assumed it was true.


Or I read actual factual history that contained no propaganda at all and was thus informed, whereas you've simply denied it on ideological grounds because it's inconvenient for you.

Unlike yourself chap, I don't run round seeking out stuff to confirm my biases. I read and follow credible sources, review evidence, inspect my thinking and THEN make up my mind. Crazy huh?


thenexttodie wrote: I know there was 1 case in which a doctor thought or said that the baby still had a heartbeat, when it was actually dead and the mother later died from septic shock. It was quite a while ago, I think in 1986. That is a tragedy.


That's nice for you. Probably best if you want to be taken seriously that you don't tacitly admit your (wilful?) ignorance then, isn't it?


thenexttodie wrote:Sparhafoc, do you think it is ever wrong for a woman to terminate her fetus?


Are you really this fucking thick, TNTD?

It's that or mendacious to the point of beggaring belief.


How many times have I written explicitly to you in this thread that I don't personally agree with terminating foetuses under any but an extremely limited set of scenarios? Half a dozen times?

Shall I go back through the thread and re-cite each and every single instance to ram home the point that you clearly can't read minds as you can't even read the fucking written word when it's expressly directed at you telling you perfectly clearly what I am thinking?


Yes, I agree that we should not kill foetuses.

Is that it done now? Presumably you thought the entire forum was in disagreement, so your premise is shown faulty right at the outset.



I don't support killing foetuses, thenexttodie. Not because of liberty, not because of anything at all. I don't support it full stop.



Should be able to them?

To <what> them?

We should be able to kill foetuses?

No, thenexttodie - I don't think we should be able to kill foetuses.



I don't support terminating foetuses except for medical and other special circumstances. I recognize the right to life, the ethical quantity there which compels us to treat the stage of development as being something essentially human, and therefore worthy of the same protections as other 'people'.



Were these statements somehow unclear to you, TNTD?

Or did you think misrepresenting my position yet again (albeit with a loaded question) was going to produce some other answer I was secretly hiding from you?

The outcome is still the same. That's because the latest iteration of your question still involves the same explicit topic and therefore, the exact same answer from me. I think it is ALWAYS wrong (or at least ethically questionable) to terminate a foetus except in specific circumstances which I have already spelled out in this thread for you.


Again, you've shown how dramatically removed you are from reality with respect to your claim that you know what I am thinking. Even when I tell you in no uncertain terms what I am thinking, you don't seem capable of grasping it.

Are you going to acknowledge that yet? Or is this the Gospel according to TNTD? You're right because you're right because you're right, and nothing I say is relevant with respect to the truth of what I think?

If that is the case, the hubris involved suggests you may want to get a blog rather than engage other people as it will save everyone the time of having to watch you rehearse ignorant prejudices in public.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:26 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

thenexttodie wrote:Spahafoc, Is there anything else you would like me to answer or clarify?



Not right now.

On the topic of abortion, you've shown yourself to be a) biologically undereducated and b) dramatically inconsistent.
On the topic of Ireland's abortion law and its history, you've shown yourself to be ignorant and stalwartly misinformed.

But this is all an aside really, because this thread is about your ability to a) read people's mind and b) the accuracy of your claim with respect to how uniform the heathen are in their beliefs because, according to you, we're all ideologically motivated by our disbelief in YHWH.

That's really all that's left to play with here.

And play we shall.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:28 pm
SparhafocPosts: 2607Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 am

Post Re: thenexttodie's mind-reading

Ohhh... I've got one.

I am going to buy a bed tomorrow, but I can't make up my mind.

Thenexttodie.... which one do I like?

Image

Image


Thanks in advance for telling me what I think!

Other heathens, listen up - TNTD's going to let us know which kind of bed we'd like given our rebellion against YHWH and intrinsic uniformity.
"a reprehensible human being"
Beliefs are, by definition, things we don't know to be true.
Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:33 pm
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